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FORUMS > St. Helens > We need some halfbacks! |
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| Quote: No1 Saint "I cant believe Brown cant see what the rest of us can . It's bl00dy obvious to anyone with eyes who knows anything about Rugby that Wello is just terrible at 6'"
Even I can see it .
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| I'm pretty sure we won't see Wellens at 6 next week.
If we do, you'd have to start to question Brown.
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| have you not tried Turner at 6. Pretty sure he was a 6 originally and when he stood in for us at Hull he always did a solid job. I thought with a run of games he could of developed into a really good 6 but he was shuffled around due to injuries before settling in at centre.
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| Quote: major black "have you not tried Turner at 6. Pretty sure he was a 6 originally and when he stood in for us at Hull he always did a solid job. I thought with a run of games he could of developed into a really good 6 but he was shuffled around due to injuries before settling in at centre.'"
At various points in a few games he seems to have had a go there.
But then that leaves a gap at centre. Jones seems to be preferred in the back-row.
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| Maybe Brown does realise that Wellens and Wilkin won't win us pots, but maybe he also realises that Charnock and Yates aren't ready yet, therefore his hands are tied.
If, now HiHo is fit, he still persists with Wello at 6, then yes, you would be right to question him. McManus needs to take a hold of this recruitment situation and try to rectify it or he will be watching an average team playing in an empty stadium in a season or two.
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| Quote: Carlos Alberto " McManus needs to take a hold of this recruitment situation and try to rectify it or he will be watching an average team playing in an empty stadium in a season or two.'"
Thought it was McManus who controlled the recruitment players and coaches?
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| Quote: Carlos Alberto "Maybe Brown does realise that Wellens and Wilkin won't win us pots, but maybe he also realises that Charnock and Yates aren't ready yet, therefore his hands are tied.
If, now HiHo is fit, he still persists with Wello at 6, then yes, you would be right to question him. McManus needs to take a hold of this recruitment situation and try to rectify it or he will be watching an average team playing in an empty stadium in a season or two.'"
There have been items of recruitment that have been very good. We forget that, though, as unfortunately the most important ones have all gone tits up.
Picking up the likes of Puletua, Soliola and now Manu have all been handy bits of business. Walmsley looks like a great find and Turner's been good for us. However, when its really counted, we've always ended up scratching our heads.
Letting Smith go when we hadn't secured Eastmond - Poor planning. Even if we'd have held onto Kyle, Smith could have slipped into the role Scott moore had to rotate at hooker and cover the halves. Then we were desperate for a 7 - we would have been a lot better off, both as a team and finacially, to find a half of modest ability but a proper skill set, then to splash out on a full back and jam him in. Around the same time Crusaders went bump and both Hanbury and Sammutt were available (quota free).
Front row signings. After Perry's less than convincing first season, the propsect of losing Jammer was a grim one. We chose Anthony Laffranchi, a former aussie test player (so presumebly not cheap) who had playerd 95% of his games in the back row. Whilst he's honest enough, he's not of the standard to be starting at prop for a team with title ambitions. So we've now got Perry, whom we can't get on the field and only performs 1 game in 3 that he does play and Boof, who's basically an expensive, less effective Paul Clough. Andy Lynch went to Hull, he'd have been a great signing and probably wouldn't have cost much more than we're paying Laffranchi.
We've got telent coming through, we've got some great players, but we've only got 75% of a team and the 25% that we are missing includes some to the most influential roles in our team -ie organising half and pack leader.
We were all hopeful that brown could turn us back into genuine contenders, but I'm afraid without the above, all he can do is polish up this turd as best he can. We'll probably sneak into 4th or 5th anyways, but without some genuinely superhuman performances in the playoffs or some fantastic improvement by Wilkin (credit to him for doing his best at 7), then we'll not need to be stocking up on silver polish.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "There have been items of recruitment that have been very good. We forget that, though, as unfortunately the most important ones have all gone tits up.
Picking up the likes of Puletua, Soliola and now Manu have all been handy bits of business. Walmsley looks like a great find and Turner's been good for us. However, when its really counted, we've always ended up scratching our heads.
Letting Smith go when we hadn't secured Eastmond - Poor planning. Even if we'd have held onto Kyle, Smith could have slipped into the role Scott moore had to rotate at hooker and cover the halves. Then we were desperate for a 7 - we would have been a lot better off, both as a team and finacially, to find a half of modest ability but a proper skill set, then to splash out on a full back and jam him in. Around the same time Crusaders went bump and both Hanbury and Sammutt were available (quota free).
Front row signings. After Perry's less than convincing first season, the propsect of losing Jammer was a grim one. We chose Anthony Laffranchi, a former aussie test player (so presumebly not cheap) who had playerd 95% of his games in the back row. Whilst he's honest enough, he's not of the standard to be starting at prop for a team with title ambitions. So we've now got Perry, whom we can't get on the field and only performs 1 game in 3 that he does play and Boof, who's basically an expensive, less effective Paul Clough. Andy Lynch went to Hull, he'd have been a great signing and probably wouldn't have cost much more than we're paying Laffranchi.
We've got telent coming through, we've got some great players, but we've only got 75% of a team and the 25% that we are missing includes some to the most influential roles in our team -ie organising half and pack leader.
We were all hopeful that brown could turn us back into genuine contenders, but I'm afraid without the above, all he can do is polish up this turd as best he can. We'll probably sneak into 4th or 5th anyways, but without some genuinely superhuman performances in the playoffs or some fantastic improvement by Wilkin (credit to him for doing his best at 7), then we'll not need to be stocking up on silver polish.'"
Wage wise they might not be different but Hull spent a lot of money to buy him ( around £250000 wasn't it ? ) given that fee we would never of been in the hunt to sign him.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "There have been items of recruitment that have been very good. We forget that, though, as unfortunately the most important ones have all gone tits up.
Picking up the likes of Puletua, Soliola and now Manu have all been handy bits of business. Walmsley looks like a great find and Turner's been good for us. However, when its really counted, we've always ended up scratching our heads.
Letting Smith go when we hadn't secured Eastmond - Poor planning. Even if we'd have held onto Kyle, Smith could have slipped into the role Scott moore had to rotate at hooker and cover the halves. Then we were desperate for a 7 - we would have been a lot better off, both as a team and finacially, to find a half of modest ability but a proper skill set, then to splash out on a full back and jam him in. Around the same time Crusaders went bump and both Hanbury and Sammutt were available (quota free).
Front row signings. After Perry's less than convincing first season, the propsect of losing Jammer was a grim one. We chose Anthony Laffranchi, a former aussie test player (so presumebly not cheap) who had playerd 95% of his games in the back row. Whilst he's honest enough, he's not of the standard to be starting at prop for a team with title ambitions. So we've now got Perry, whom we can't get on the field and only performs 1 game in 3 that he does play and Boof, who's basically an expensive, less effective Paul Clough. Andy Lynch went to Hull, he'd have been a great signing and probably wouldn't have cost much more than we're paying Laffranchi.
We've got telent coming through, we've got some great players, but we've only got 75% of a team and the 25% that we are missing includes some to the most influential roles in our team -ie organising half and pack leader.
We were all hopeful that brown could turn us back into genuine contenders, but I'm afraid without the above, all he can do is polish up this turd as best he can. We'll probably sneak into 4th or 5th anyways, but without some genuinely superhuman performances in the playoffs or some fantastic improvement by Wilkin (credit to him for doing his best at 7), then we'll not need to be stocking up on silver polish.'"
Good post that sums things up pretty well. We've made some real howlers in recent times but it's not unfixable. I will say though that I think the Soliola situation has proved a little fortunate as we did sign him as a centre not a back row and for me he doesnt have the mobility required to make it as a top centre
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| Losing Jammer and Eastmond at the same time was a real killer for us. We were never going to be able to replace those two with British players, so we had to fill up our quota to plug those massive gaps when we really needed to be using it to freshen up our backline.
That said, both of the signings we made were panic ones, particularly Hohaia. Also, as Offside Monkey has implied, you'd have thought someone could have seen the Eastmond situation coming and taken some steps to prepare for the worst.
It's looking like another season much like the last one at the moment, although I'm enjoying it much more what with all the youngsters getting a go. Next season should show us what Brown can do with the side, as we will finally have some room to maneuver with the quota. If we can sort out a deal for someone like Dobson mid-season that would be great, but I'll not be holding my breath as quite a few things would have to fall into place for it to happen.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "Front row signings. After Perry's less than convincing first season, the propsect of losing Jammer was a grim one. We chose Anthony Laffranchi, a former aussie test player (so presumebly not cheap) who had playerd 95% of his games in the back row. Whilst he's honest enough, he's not of the standard to be starting at prop for a team with title ambitions. So we've now got Perry, whom we can't get on the field and only performs 1 game in 3 that he does play and Boof, who's basically an expensive, less effective Paul Clough. Andy Lynch went to Hull, he'd have been a great signing and probably wouldn't have cost much more than we're paying Laffranchi.
'"
There's plenty of cheaper options than Lynch that spring to mind. The likes of Amor and Sidlow, although not superstars, would've been better signings than Perry and Laffranchi, on a lot less money and not taking up quota spots.
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| Quote: FearTheVee "I'm pretty sure we won't see Wellens at 6 next week.
If we do, you'd have to start to question Brown.'"
This. I'm certain it'll be Hohaia and Wilkin at 6 & 7. Lance is far better at 6 than Wello and IMO when he has a good game can cause teams problems. He'll at least take some of the responsibility from Wilkin. It's obvious we need a new half back but Browns just trying to do the best with what he has. If Wello is starting there against Catalan questions will be asked and rightly so.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "There have been items of recruitment that have been very good. We forget that, though, as unfortunately the most important ones have all gone tits up.
Picking up the likes of Puletua, Soliola and now Manu have all been handy bits of business. Walmsley looks like a great find and Turner's been good for us. However, when its really counted, we've always ended up scratching our heads.
Letting Smith go when we hadn't secured Eastmond - Poor planning. Even if we'd have held onto Kyle, Smith could have slipped into the role Scott moore had to rotate at hooker and cover the halves. Then we were desperate for a 7 - we would have been a lot better off, both as a team and finacially, to find a half of modest ability but a proper skill set, then to splash out on a full back and jam him in. Around the same time Crusaders went bump and both Hanbury and Sammutt were available (quota free).
Front row signings. After Perry's less than convincing first season, the propsect of losing Jammer was a grim one. We chose Anthony Laffranchi, a former aussie test player (so presumebly not cheap) who had playerd 95% of his games in the back row. Whilst he's honest enough, he's not of the standard to be starting at prop for a team with title ambitions. So we've now got Perry, whom we can't get on the field and only performs 1 game in 3 that he does play and Boof, who's basically an expensive, less effective Paul Clough. Andy Lynch went to Hull, he'd have been a great signing and probably wouldn't have cost much more than we're paying Laffranchi.
We've got telent coming through, we've got some great players, but we've only got 75% of a team and the 25% that we are missing includes some to the most influential roles in our team -ie organising half and pack leader.
We were all hopeful that brown could turn us back into genuine contenders, but I'm afraid without the above, all he can do is polish up this turd as best he can. We'll probably sneak into 4th or 5th anyways, but without some genuinely superhuman performances in the playoffs or some fantastic improvement by Wilkin (credit to him for doing his best at 7), then we'll not need to be stocking up on silver polish.'"
Sums it up pretty well I think.
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| I'm glad someone else thinks that the Eastmond senario was not unforseeable.
At the time when we told Long to go, I was very surprised we dealt with Eastmond last. 2 years later it was out of Saints hands, but we had put it in his hands in the first place. Even after that though there were places to no go wrong, even this last part of the halfback saga Gaskell to Salford, it all seams crazy.
Whether Gaskell was the future for Saints or not, whether he was going to walk at the end of the year or not, whether he sat on his bum whilst training or not, he was a halfback of some measure and we shipped him out as he was the last half standing (literally).
I'm not as negative as some, because the situation as it was this weekend will improve.
You put Roby back in, you put Lomax at FB and Lance at half and suddenly we are not a bottom 8 side, we are a top 4 side. The big question is how to take that step to the top side.
Lance will still be here next year and the year after. (at least his contract is)
Wilkin is he a better 2nd rower than Sia, Manu etc.
I think Wello has filled a role and nothing more, there can be no plan for him actually being a half.
But Lance is the stumbling block, if we get a halfback it will only be one as Lance will be the other (but he ain't a half) , he's not the 1st choice FB anymore and hooker we will go to Salford for their 3rd string before Lance.
I was content that Wilkin was a sticking plaster for 12 months with Lance and Gaskell chipping in, but we do look wild in our halfback planning.
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