One stat you've conveniently missed off is appearances, without that your analysis is useless. Hogdson is a vastly better player than Wellens and isn't hampered by a crippling lack of pace and mobility. He can still chime into the attack and lets face it Warrington can rotate him and play him as and when they like. If they play Ratchford there, they aren't really losing anything, so Hodgson can have a rest whenever he needs to. Wellens on the other hand is terrible, horrifically slow, defensively a liability as he's never where he needs to be and offensively an absolute black hole.

Who fit the bill of a decent prop? Chris Hill did, as did Andy Lynch. Yet moronically we signed a back rower who has been shown up by all the big sides in Super League as not being up to playing prop.

We seem to be locked into a repeated arguement, you claim there is no one available to sign who is better than what we've already got. That's nonsense.

Wellens has played 20 games, Hodgson has played 14, yet Wellens has scored almost 3 x as many tries as Hodgson, not far from 3 x as many tackle busts, 3 x as many clean breaks, his average gain with the ball per game is much higher and Wello has made 3 less errors than him...therefore the analysis represents Wellens to have played about 25% more games than Hodgson, yet a lot of his statistics are well over 50% better than Hodgson has managed...and apparently Hodgson is worth a 2 year deal yet Wello doesnt deserve anything??



2 props available last season, but we chose to go for Laffranchi who for the majority of the year has been our best forward...Lynch and Hill have got more size to them and are out and out props, but Laffranchi has done a very good job for us



Ok then...who? Who is available currently as a prop, stand off, full back or anything else that would be a realistic target for us to sign and is better than what we currently have?

How am I supposed to know who is available? Player's agents don't tell me. But there are always players available and every season for the past 4 or 5 years we could list several players who would have been better for us than what we now have, that have moved to other clubs. Off the top of my head I can name Manuokafoa, Ferriol, Moa and O'Meley from SL who would all get into our team and there are always plenty in the NRL if we could get rid of someone, from a link on the VT Poore, Kite, Boyd, Packer and Cashmere are all off contract and would waltz into our team.

There are also bound to be more of the likes of Chris Hill in the Championship. To say 'there's no one to sign' is just silly, players good enough for our first team will move. We could sort two of the problem positions out internally, Makinson or Hohaia to fullback, Gaskell to 7, Wellens released and a prop signed.

Well how do you know that the players available to sign are better than what we already have?



Again, this depends on quota spaces and wouldnt want to lose Soliola, TP or Laffranchi for them, Perry has been playing well lately (therefore swapping a prop for a prop if he was to go) and Hohaia (and I wouldnt lose him for a prop and hope to fill that gap with a British stand off as nobody is available thats good enough, and Gaskell showed early in season he isnt ready to be our regular 6 just yet). Also, how many of the listed NRL players would want to come to SL??



Possibly, but for every Chris Hill, there is a lot more that look good at Championship level but arent good enough for SL...tony Tonks looked great for Featherstone last year in Championship but how has he done at Huddersfield for example??



When players move on then we have gaps to fill, but if a player is already at the club and is better than whats available then why replace it. As for Wellens, he is our top try scorer this season, still safe as houses and his experience will help Makinson/other young players develop as a full back, if Hodgson is worth 2 years at Wire then Wello defo worth another year for us

You could equally say the same about wigoon, if you supported them, who would you keep? Tomkins. Who else? Difficult to pick any standout players that you would bust a gut to save, but as a team they are far better than the sum of their individual abilities. The most important person at Wigan was McGuire, not the players. As pete says, we have lacked a top coach for a fee years, I'm still not convinced brown is a top coach

Currently Tomkins, Charnley, Thornley, Smith, Leuluai, Finch, Lima, Prescott, Hansen, O' Loughlin. They are going to get weaker, as the whole of SL is, but they've got Tomkins. If we had him at fullback we probably wouldn't have all these threads as he'd improve us drastically.

Their players, whilst not world beaters, are a lot better physically than ours, stronger and more aggressive. They out enthuse us and are far more aggressive.

Alot of those players where playing under Noble and we would not have given the time of day. Head chopper O'Loughlin was a liability previously. Finch had a very so so first year at Wigan, not really that impressive. Charnley and Tomkins have looked class from day one. But so did Eastmond and Graham, yet the RFL where only happy to change the cap rules come the possible loss of Tomkins, by that time it was too late to save those 2 players. Saying that Wigan have a much better youth system is disingenuous. I'll agree it's a better system from the looks of it today, but 3 years ago it would not have been the case.

Instant long term results are impossible. For mine the only issue I have with Saints would be over the mistake made with Eastmond and the lack of replacing Talau. The Eastmond deal should not have been done after telling Long and Smith to go. Talau should have been replaced or kept on at the club.

Tomkins
Charnley
McIllorum
Mossop
Hansen
Hock
O'Loughlin
Thornley
Prescott

Ok, I would take issue with a few of your choices, but you support my point. From the Goons you would keep 9




From Saints you would keep 13


Now maybe this is tinged with Saints specs, but the fact remains that our squad really is no worse than the Goons, but as a team, they are better by a fair distance. For me therefore, the difference is coaching, fitness, and everything that goes to turn a bunch of journeyman pros into a champion side. Wigan are better at Saints at that part of the club, and we need to recognise thqat the days of having an all star team are past, now we have to do the best with the players we have available.

I had this same argument early in the year when insane saints have made a massive mistake in signing Laffranchi who's a backrow to replace jammer.

I listed about 6 props that was off contract and moved clubs and the was (off the top of my head) about 15 props that joined other clubs.

Can't remember them a but off the top of my head - griffin, hill, Lauaki, gill dudson, Ben flower, Brent kite, Jason king, Andy lynch (went for fee), Bryce Gibbs.

The bulls signed at least one prop, London signed two props and can't be bothered thinking of others but the was 100% props avsilabke.

We were in for Griffin, Hill also went for a fee IIRC, it was the reason I was told we didn't go for him. Wire swooped and were willing to pay the fee.

Dudson and Flower have hardly played (and isn't one a second rower?) I wouldn't have touched Lauaki with a bargepole.

I'm not sure any of those others who we could have signed, seeing as we haven't any quota space and that discounts the Aussies you've named would have improved us at all tbh.

Hill's fee was the value of his contract and I'm sure I read it was in the region of £10,000. We could afford that surely. He's a player who is going to give Warrington at least 8 years of quality rugby if he keeps developing as he is now. It certainly wasn't the hundreds of thousands we paid for Scully back in the days when we wanted to win trophies.

We've just made a £2 million loss, maybe we couldn't.

One thing you need to take into consideration when comparing statistics with Wellens and Brett, is that TS plays Brett mostly in the big games against the best sides when its more difficult to score trys , make metres etc etc. Whereas Wellens has played most of your games which include the likes of Broncos, Widnes, Wakey & Cas against whom it is easier to make hay.

It has been rumoured that Saints offered Brett a 2 year contract before he resigned for Warrington. Who would you rather play FullBack for Saints, Wellens or Brett?

We did have a quota spot for a prop but it was taking up by Laffranchi who's a backrow.

I'm totally shocked that we replaced James Graham with laffranchci.