Lets put this to a real test

1. tomkins 1. wellens. 1. Hodgson. In a few years time Sam but for now Brett
2. charnley 2. makinson. 2. Riley. Mmmmmm Difficult all 3 are good young players.
3. goulding 3. wheeler 3. Bridge. Brdigey by a country mile.
4. carmont 4. shenton 4.Atkins. Ryan by another country mile
5. richards 5. meli 5. Joel or Pat both good. But Meli
6. finch 6. lance 6. Briers Lee all the way.
7. tommy 7. lomax 7. Myler Tommy.
8. mossop 8. perry 8. Moz. Moz all day long.
9. micky 9. roby 9. Monas M Difficult but on this season for James
10. prescott 10. lafranchi 10. Carvell. Carvell.
11. hansen 11. afro top 11. Trent. Trent.
12. hock 12. TP 12. Super Ben. Super Ben but Hock and TP are very good.
13. o'loughlin 13. wilkin 13. Grix. O'loughlin.

so you understand possible bias, i am a wigan fan. id argue 1, but could concede being more aware of sams weaknesses than hodgsons. id also argue 8 and 10, as carvell and morley as far as im aware have been worse than last season. neither mossop nor prescott have put together a good run of games this season, but i believe theyll have proved themselves to doubters come the end of the season.

Mossop is far better than Prescott, who'll be no more than an average SL player.

The game (sadly) went as I thought it would. We just seemed to rush things near the line and again we looked weak compared to Wigan. The only thing that surprised me was how many mistakes Wigan made. It was a good thing to, if Wigan had played well it could have been a lot worse. Thanks to the usual suspects, McLorum, Hock, etc for that. In the end scoring was too easy for Wigan once they got near our line.

Looking at Saints it seems to be the same men once again. Hohaia and Wellens killed of our attacks better than any Wigan defender. We looked dangerous when Lomax, Roby or Wilkin have ball in hand but once one of our two handicaps gets hold of it they get tackled, Wigan hold down for 3-4 seconds and any momentum is lost.

Our front row is weak, not one man is guilty but none step up and make serious metres or put on some big hits. We have two good attacking wingers but our centres are unwilling to pass to them and are unable to make a break.

Our backrowers were good as well as Lomax who was forced to over play but did well for a young player.

With exception of Soliola would we notice if all our overseas players got deported??

I'd keep Laffranchi too. He didn't have his best game today but he's been our best prop all season and has a great offloading game when on song. But as for the rest I would be very happy to see the lot sent packing, and I include TP in that too as he can be lazy in defence and also in his willingness to take up the ball sometimes. He used to pass to Jammer a lot.

We just miss Jammer in the forwards. We have nobody anywhere near his callibre or with his fire or willingness to take up the ball.

Get real! Player for player you're not in the same league at the moment! Wellens or Tomkins? Finch or Hohaia? Your pack, Roby and Soliola (when he's in the pack) aside, is distinctly second rate. Sure, good coaching makes a big difference; something I pointed out in a thread on this very board when, after the first round of matches, you were all gloating about what a mistake 'The Ape' was going to be and how Wigan were looking at a swift decline. Top of the league and in the semi-final of the Challenge cup. Not bad for a 'mistake' eh? Some of you desreve to be eating humble pie right now...

A serious question for you now. Are you really that blind that you think your current team is capable of playing our structures? Wellens isn't quick, inventive or elusive enough, Your pack isn't aggressive enough and your halves aren't capable of controlling a game. One more question. Are you seriously suggesting that Tony Smith, a coach who has been a success and won trophies at several sides isn't capable of putting structures in place that would allow them to be top of the league (er....a bit like he did last year for example) if the players were up to it? The bottom line is that Warrington aren't at the top this season because they are too reliant on aging, injury prone players, specifically Lee Briers, Adrian Morley and Brett Hodgeson. They're still capable of turning in good performances...just not as regularly as they'd need to to be top of the table currently.

You say you aren't taking anything away from Wigan but, in fact, that's exactly what yoy ARE trying to do by suggesting that you'd be top of the league if you played with our structures. If it was that simple why have successive coaches been able to get you playing that way? The simple truth is that you aren't as good a team as Wigan at them moment. Just as we weren't as good as the dominant Saints team of a few years ago. Or was that just because we weren't playing the right structures too and not because you had the better team?

Great post!

not to take away from a good post, but didnt maguire take the same team, add deacon, and dominate the league?

Prescott has been just as good as Mossop so far this year although they have slightly different playing styles. Mossop has a better work rate but Prescott is harder to bring down and a much better ball player. Prescott is also more important in Wigan's attacking moves and more likely to put players through gaps. I'd take both of them over LMS, Laffranchi, Perry etc.

Based on player ability/talent and not current form (which is all you'll be using to judge on naturally but which would be criminally unfair given our respective current coaching situations):

1. Tompkins
2. Richards*
3. Wheeler
4. Carmont*
5. Meli
6. Finch
7. Lomax (not a #7 but would need to be in my team somewhere and Finch would make him 10x more effective there)
8. La Frank
9. Roby
10. TP
11. Soliola
12. Hock
13. O'Loughlin
14. Mossop
15. Clough **
16. Wilkin
17. Hohaia ***

* Both look past their best, especially Richards, so you can have Charnley and Goulding instead if you want. Shenton should probably feature ahead of Goulding on the talent/ability scale, but has been so disappointing for Saints so far that I just can't justify it.

** Clough has admittedly been **** for 2 years but I'm still hopeful he'll reignite with a decent coach.

*** OK, OK I'm joking... Leuluai

I make that a 9-8 Saints win (10-7 if you still hold out any hope of Shenton coming good, 11-6 in the ever increasingly unlikely event that Perry isn't washed up now), no 3 or 4 man holding down and ground-writhing required.

And no McIlorum instead of Roby

im not sure thats a good way to analyse as surely player ability/talent should be apparent regardless of coaching should it not?