So all in all it could be worse for us. Our chums over the hill are losing there talismanic coach , union look like they are trying to snare the Tomkins sisters (lifelong wigan fans apart from when they were warrington fans) and lulu's making noises about going off to the NRL too at the end of next season.

Ah well - If they want to bog off to union there isnt a great deal anyone can do about it other than force them to see out there contract which would be counter productive.

I've said for many years that the Aussies don't give a flying fek about the International game, just the State of Origin.

I wanted us to send our best academy players, young coaches, administrators etc over there to learn their trades from the best. We need their help but I can't see it happening until sadly it's too late.

Typical of you to resort to personal insult.

He was stating the bleeding obvious. If a player wants to cross codes or go to the NRL there is bugger all we can do about it.

However, since you are constantly harping on about how fabulous your u20s side is, should Tomkins be off to Union then I'm sure you have an equally talented replacement for him already lined up.

One man's departure is another's opportunity.

I will indeed (and supporting England and EVERY player in an England shirt - even though it should be a GB shirt) and you may also notice if you look at what I've written nowhere do I state I'm happy to be losing players to Union. From a Saints point of view I dont care but from an international point of view S Tomkins would be a loss (as was Eastmond).

Also like I said , not sure wigan could do much to stop them leaving if they set their minds on it and I would be against allowing any team to break the cap to keep a player in these current times of fiscal hardship.

You should know by now Rogues just reads what he wants too and makes the rest up. Am I sad wigan may end up in turmoil? Nope not one bit, would I be sad if RL lost a talent like the Rat? yes I would. If he wants of of his 'Wigan wonder land' I'd have him at Saints , we could straighten out his niggly side and we'd have a top class player on our hands to replace Wello

What sort of specialisation would you want?
Scrummaging, union would love that.
Maybe adopt the NFL and have defence and offensive teams, but then the individual wages of a 50 man squad would be pitiful as no RL team could afford to pay big bucks to so many players They struggle to pay the current 25 man squads more than an average of around £45k per player a year. With 50 man squads we would be down to £20k part time players again.

Our backs are not against the wall. RL is in the ascendant and RU knows it. The NRL was for years a drugged up, chained 800 pound Gorilla, however it's now gone cold turkey and broken free from its News Limited shackles. It financial muscle will dominate the Southern Hemisphere and indeed world rugby of both codes.
All that RU can hope for is that its rich Northern Hemisphere cousins at Twickers HQ, can win a few skirmishes against the embattled Northern RL fortress.
However they know that we have survived and indeed prospered for over 100 years despite their best efforts to destroy us. All the while the RFU waste money and effort picking off the odd player in a game of cat and mouse up north, the Aussies will be building an indomitable RL empire.

If they have money to spend (and it's looking increasingly likely they will have, the best NRL teams would be foolish to not have a scouting network that includes the north of England. Who knows where the NRL could go with this kind of money? It could start them on the path to being a NFL, MLB, Premiership of our game i.e. a true genuine global brand. Although it might mean we lose some players to the NRL the overall increase in exposure for the sport is potentially ludicrous.

That's League's business.



I think old age is beginning to affect your memory, mate. Don't you recall our conversation several months ago in which we discussed the current and likely future economic climate in relation to Rugby League? I distinctly recall you agreeing with me when I said League is likely to struggle given a) the seemingly endless depression affecting the North of England, b) Union's ever-increasing finances and c) the NRL's latest TV deal.

League is not in the ascendant. Our results against the best team in the world are an embarrassment. Crowds are not what they were and neither is SL's sponsorship. We are desperately short of talent and Union is about to embark on a massive spending programme. The guy interviewed on SKY wasn't talking about bringing one or two players to union a season. The emphasis was on [ibloc signings. [/i



Why use the NRL's windfall as a counterargument when it was conceded in the first place? We're talking BRITISH rugby here. Not the world game. And what good a cash-rich NRL will do SL I've no idea. Sure, we benefit at international level but what's the point if the game HERE has become a joke with washed-up, third-rate deadbeats being the star men at the top clubs?



Unfortunately, this "fortress" appears to be leaking our best talent. On the other hand THEIR fortress is like the home of King Croesus.



Yeah? How much are the season tickets?

I disagreed with you on the union bit, but said i expected the NRL to become a magnate for British RL players and potentially like the NBA in Basketball or NHL in ice Hockey. That doesnt mean league is dieing it means its growing.

Mugs you are talking British RL , i am looking at the bigger picture. Just as you cant look at RU without taking in their international game, so you cant take in the state of RL without looking at the NRL.

I also disagree about there being no point to the game if you are not watching superstars.
RL has never had genuine superstars in this country it has only ever had local heroes. As such to be a fan of RL you cant be someone hypnotised by glamour, because there is little hype and glamour in British RL. What attracts people to RL is the game itself, and the genuine feeling of community amongst its followers.
You see the same thing outside the realms of Premiership football. Tens of thousands of fans watch championship teams knowing those players are second rate, but they do so because they love their football and are passionate in following their local side.

In a war there are always casualties. We will lose a few good men along the way, but just as Britain stood firm against the Nazi Hordes so should RL stand firm against the Twickenham white shirts. For we know that across the Oceans a leviathan has awoken. Just as the USA turned the tide against Hitler, the Australian NRL will ensure that League wins the Rugby war.

Money talks in sport but we have the better more marketable game (for the masses), swings and roundabouts, they both survive side by side like they have done for years Union will always be bigger and League will always get it's plaudits from the occasional neutral. I'm not worried.

Exactly. To be honest I don't particularly care all that much for the NRL. It's not that I don't enjoy watching. It's just that it is too far away to be socially relevant. It's not like I can just nip down to Brisbane to take in a few games here and there. And the NRL can stand up for itself. It is not under any threat.



Of course you can. There are thousands of British SL (and lower league) fans who haven't watched a single NRL game and have no plans to do so - just as there are millions of football fans who haven't the foggiest idea who the Dutch champions are.



You're confusing stardom with ability. A "star" is a media construction. You can be a world class player whilst never being a "superstar". To be honest, I could quite easily live with no stars at all. But a game without talent is at an evolutionary dead end.



Martin Offiah was a superstar. So was Ellery Hanley. Paul Sculthorpe wasn't too far away either with his regular appearances in the media. But don't try and convince me that the game never had outstanding talent. It did. The problem we face to today is talent is being leeched away from the sport. And THAT is something I cannot simply pass off as insignificant.



Why do you keep talking about "glamour"? I never mentioned it.



Alex Murphy was "second rate"? Tommy Voll, Billy Boston, Ellery Hanley, Kevin Ward, John Woods, Tony Myler, Brian McTigue - all "second rate"? These are some of the very people who DEFINED the sport of Rugby League.



For heaven's sake quit with the cod-Churchillian nonsense. It might stir the passions but it doesn't alter the facts.