As you have pointed out previously, the U20s and 18s are a joke, beating Salford and Leeds by big scores does little to enhance the development of either team.

In Oz there is the Queensland Cup competition, which is far and away more competative and prepares players for the senior grade in a more demanding environment.

Until the RL stop allowing Clubs like Wigan and Saints to loan players out, the situation will not be resolved, what incentive is there to clubs to develope their own talent when they can sign fringe players from other clubs, (I think I read that Wigan have 6/7 players on loan), yes, it does help the individuals to become better players in a more challenging environment by going on loan, but that is just bypassing the real problem which is a very uncompetative and lopsided U20 and 18s system.

I've just seen the teams
Only two of the loaned players, Vievers and Marsh played. Ten of that Wigan team still qualify at U18 level.


That's why I was surprised at the scores, and similarly with the U18's of whom the majority were first year 16 year olds.

You still had Karl Pryce, who was bigger, stronger and older than any of the Saints players

You are allowed three overage players.
I didn't go as I was at Sheffield.

Was Pryce the difference between the two sides?

He scored the try that changed the game

Did Pryce have a good game?

It's about time wigan went with youth, the have been many good young players who wigan got shut to bring in overseas players.

So at last maybe wigan are doing it the correct way!

We've always given enough youngsters their chance but after 2004 and 2005 we started to lose a lot of our good experienced players and didn't replace them well enough. And as you said a couple have been awful overseas players. Another thing that didn't help was that the crop of youngsters who came through in 2003 that are now at the likes of Huddersfield, all played and came through under Mike Greg and they seemed to lose their hunger after that and the sad loss to Mike. Now the current crop that we are seeing now have all played under Shaun Wayne and even though Maguire is the new coach, having Wayne there is a vital part of the coaching staff as the players will want to play for him. We're finally starting to get the balance right which is what we haven't done over recent years.

IMO bringing in good youth players will massive for clubs in super league and is the way clubs have to go, however teams have to be very lucky to get a good batch of young lads to come thru at once.

Its good for Wigan and RL that they are getting their act together on the junior front.

I certainly expect them to be a formidable first team force in years to come as the cream of those youngsters come through into the Wigan first team.

We should not lose site of the fact though that things are not as clear cut in Wigans favour as they appear.

For example Rogues comments on Wigan having a lot of players eligible for under 18's RL. However so did Saints.

You also have to remember that we had a 19 year old in Foster making his senior debut.
We also have Lomax who is only 19 out injured who is a 1st team player already. As well as Wheeler, Eastmond, Dixon and Ashurst who are 1st team regulars at just 20 years of age.

We have Ste Tyrer and Jacob Emmitt, both 21 years old on loan, Matty Smith 22 years old on loan


Compare that to the so called Wigan super 1st team youngsters

Paul Prescott 24 year old
Joel Tomkins 23 years old
Eamonn o Carroll 22 years old
Mike Mcllorum 22 years old
Darell Goulding 22 years old
Harrison Hansen 24 years old
Lee Mossop 21 years old
Shaun Ainscough 20 years old (on loan)
liam farrell 19 years old (on loan)
Sam Tomkins 21 years old

I agree its good for pies and rugby league that such good youth coming thru.

I think they have by far a better level of yougsters coming thru than saints at the moment. Lomax, wheeler and eastmond look very good but i dont think any of the others will make it to a high super league level.

Jamie Foster has only just had his first team debut. How can you write him off already? And what about Lee Gaskell, for instance, who hasn't had a debut yet or Jamie Ellis whose debut - poor lad - was when we were playing dire rugby last year but who is long term injured just now? You can't honestly write all these guys off, surely? They've either only just appeared on the scene or haven't yet had their chance.

IMO Foster didn't put a foot wrong last night, it would be hard to deselect him based on his performance. If Gardner and Meli are asking for new contracts, i would show them lomax and foster and probably armstrong. They will be cheaper, and are at very least no worse than Ade

To be honest i was on about dixon, ashurst, emmitt and mcgennis as i have seem them play a fair bit, not seen enough of foster, ellis or gaskell but we need to bring some big good forwards thru our youth.

Is the above post somehow trying to dismiss the quality of the players that Wigan have brought through? Because if that's the case most of the Saints youngsters must be worse as they were spanked by the Wigan youngsters year after year at academy and reserve level.

Eastmond's a great player with a huge future, Lomax can also go onto good things as long as his carrer doesn't continue to be blighted by injurys. The jury's still out for me in regards to Wheeler, granted I don't see him as much as you Saints fans but he doesn't come over all that impressive.

As for Dixon and Ashurt you're really scraping the barrel, those lads won't make it at Saints because they aren't good enough, Mossop may be a year older but he's light years ahead of them, and that's not just down to the minute age difference, it's down to a thing called talent.

The same goes for Tyrer at Salford, the guy's defense is woeful and I very much doubt he'll have a future at Saints. Matty Smith will only make it at Saints if you lose Eastmond to RU and then you'll have no other option then to go with Smith or buy in from overseas. As for Foster other than his supeb kicking game he pretty much optomizes what we'd call a one trick pony.

Some of the Wigan players in the list you've put together won't make it at Wigan for various reasons, just like not all the players at Saints will make, but as long as both clubs keep the cream of the crops they'll do well.