FORUMS > St. Helens > Gilmour |
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| He can go.
We have players in abundance at second row or people who can cover that position. Ashurst and Dixon can play more next year.
He is expendable and will free up cap room.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 2935 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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Jul 2021 | Nov 2012 | LINK |
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| Quote: Billinge_Lump "I also seem to remember a few people being a touch dismissive when we signed him.'"
This is true and something that concerns me these days with regards to many of our fans' attitudes towards signing other superleague players. It seems like to many fans if they play in the superleague but not at Saints they aren't good enough to pull on a redvee.
I seem to remember similar dismissiveness towards Pryce's signing (although this may have had as much to do with something else).
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
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| Quote: Tony Stark "This is true and something that concerns me these days with regards to many of our fans' attitudes towards signing other superleague players. It seems like to many fans if they play in the superleague but not at Saints they aren't good enough to pull on a redvee.
I seem to remember similar dismissiveness towards Pryce's signing (although this may have had as much to do with something else).'"
I for one thought paul anderson was too old
I've learnt my lesson
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International Board Member | 14094 | |
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Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
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2595.jpg I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.
[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.
Thick as pig swill.[/quote]:2595.jpg |
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| Quote: Saint Simon "I for one thought paul anderson was too old
Ditto
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
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| Quote: Billinge_Lump "Ditto
we had his best 2 yrs IMO, DA thought he could easily do 1 more as well.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 2935 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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Jul 2021 | Nov 2012 | LINK |
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| Quote: ST_CONROY "He can go.
We have players in abundance at second row or people who can cover that position. Ashurst and Dixon can play more next year.
He is expendable and will free up cap room.'"
Fair comment but just to play devils advocate ... its all well and good us freeing loads of cap space but who/what are we freeing it for?
1. We're covered in most positions other than prop.
2. Most of the kids have already negotiated new contracts this year so their salaries should be set for next season.
3. We are already losing, at least one if not two or three of our highest wage earners in Long, Cayless and KC.
4. We are allegedly spending under the cap this year.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7797 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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Feb 2015 | Feb 2015 | LINK |
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| Quote: Tony Stark "Fair comment but just to play devils advocate
Exactly, there is no point going out of our way to make room on the cap if no-one is available to bring in. We already have a very weak squad, IMO, and letting Gilmour leave will only make it weaker.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 2935 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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Jul 2021 | Nov 2012 | LINK |
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| Quote: saint billy "Exactly, there is no point going out of our way to make room on the cap if no-one is available to bring in. We already have a very weak squad, IMO, and letting Gilmour leave will only make it weaker.'"
I'm not sure i agree that our squad is weak as such, unless you just mean inexperienced. Unfortunately this is something we have to take a chance with, alongside most teams in superleague over the next few years with the rule changes. I think we have made a good headstart in that respect over most others.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 7069 | No Team Selected |
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Jan 2006 | 19 years | |
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Sep 2014 | Sep 2014 | LINK |
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19857_1352042670.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_19857.jpg |
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| Quote: Tony Stark "Fair comment but just to play devils advocate
Freeing cap space is just the bonus.
When you look at the player who can play second row we have:
Wilkin
Clough
Puletua
Flannery
Dixon
Ashurst
Magennis?
Soliola
Gilmour is good, but i think easily replaceable. Ashurst, who IMO has been our best young player, should step up and replace Gilly long term with a starting back row next year of Wilkin, Flannery, Clough while intergrating Ashurst and Dixon occasionally.
On the opposite of your point, Why spend money on the cap when it isn't needed?
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 12189 | No Team Selected |
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Jun 2007 | 17 years | |
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| Quote: Tony Stark "I'm not sure i agree that our squad is weak as such, unless you just mean inexperienced. Unfortunately this is something we have to take a chance with, alongside most teams in superleague over the next few years with the rule changes. I think we have made a good headstart in that respect over most others.'"
before the season started i was very worried about the depth of our squad, but the young'uns have come on better than we could've hoped and filled the void and are challenging the senior players for 1st team places, making them work harder, which is all good
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 2935 | No Team Selected |
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Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
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Jul 2021 | Nov 2012 | LINK |
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12951_1317512951.jpg [img:c0qkl00y]http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/tycelchu/Entertainers-Banner-May-2009.gif[/img:c0qkl00y]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12951.jpg |
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| Quote: ST_CONROY "Freeing cap space is just the bonus.
When you look at the player who can play second row we have
Ooo good reply, touche sir! See this is the kind of debate we need more often on here!
TBH the only answer I personally can wholeheartedly give for retaining Gilmour in that respect is as someone else stated, his 'old head' experience and the loss of both his and several others were they all to leave at the end of this year.
As much as he brings on the pitch with his deceptive pace, line breaking and physical tackling abilities, he brings double with his big game experience, cool head, and knowledge of the game. Sometimes these are as valuable as the things being young and fresh can bring, if not more.
Not wanting to jump on everyone's bandwagon when they rib you about Matty Smith, but it is the things I mention above that made DA pick Longy in the 2007 GF and many people on hear agree with the decision. With the exception of perhaps Flannery and arguably Wilkin non of the back rowers you named have as much of these things as Gilly and that would be a big loss.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7797 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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Feb 2015 | Feb 2015 | LINK |
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10308_1422962107.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10308.jpg |
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| Quote: Tony Stark "I'm not sure i agree that our squad is weak as such, unless you just mean inexperienced. Unfortunately this is something we have to take a chance with, alongside most teams in superleague over the next few years with the rule changes. I think we have made a good headstart in that respect over most others.'"
I did mean in terms of inexperience. If one or two of the starting 17 get injured leading up to a big game, i feel we would struggle to win the game as we would have to put a kid in. As you say, hopefully this will give us a head start for the future, but if as is been said, we have cap space available, then why not keep Gilmour and bring in a few players that will give us more strength in depth and it would also allow us to us the kids a bit more wisely rather than be forced to use them, when we may not want to.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7797 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2015 | Feb 2015 | LINK |
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Signature |
10308_1422962107.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_10308.jpg |
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| Quote: ST_CONROY "Freeing cap space is just the bonus.
When you look at the player who can play second row we haveOn the opposite of your point, Why spend money on the cap when it isn't needed?'"
Because it is there to be used, and if we can afford to use it then why not have the extra option of Gilmour to give us more depth in the squad.
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International Chairman | 25689 | No Team Selected |
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Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
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1617.jpg [quote="Meyt N Prater Pie"]I think I hate wigan.[/quote]:1617.jpg |
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| Quote: ST_CONROY "Freeing cap space is just the bonus.
When you look at the player who can play second row we have
Soliola will play at Centre, Puletua will play at prop because we're short at prop as it is. Unless we sign a couple of props (and there isn't alot available) then Puletua will feature there.
Wilkin, Clough and Flannery would first choice by your reckoning. After that it's youngsters. Whilst, we need to give youngsters a chance, Gilmour offers great experience, quality and utility value to the squad. That is a vital commodity in any team. He will aid the development of the younger players not hinder it.
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Player Coach | 6767 | No Team Selected |
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Oct 2007 | 17 years | |
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Jul 2024 | Apr 2024 | LINK |
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| Quote: ST_CONROY "Freeing cap space is just the bonus.
When you look at the player who can play second row we have
If you look at it in another perspective where would you place Gilmour in that list as a true back rower, at worst I,ve got him placed 3rd, so why let him go.......or is it an ageist thing.
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