Gaskell and Lomax in 2011 were better than Ratchford, O'Brien and Myler all thrown in together. Briers has a decade of experience on Gaskell and Lomax and so it's just dumb to compare them.

This is easily the worst team we've had since 1996. Whilst some of the old teams had poor players in them, they were always held up by us having a few absolutely outstanding players. There was always a Lyon, Albert, Cunningham, Sculthorpe, Martyn, Fairleigh, Long or Graham in there. We don't have one player of that calibre now, Roby isn't up with them.

What this side lacks most is character. It has no team spirit at all and absolutely no leaders. In teams of old, when it was tight you would always back us to get the job done. Not this team, when it gets tough you feel sick as you know it's going to capitulate.

Is this squad worse than the 2012 squad????

Manu for Flannery
Turner for Shenton
Warmsley for Dixon

In the end the squad has improved on all 3 players brought in. But you can't tear up contracts that players have signed. I said last year that the 2014 squad will be Browns squad, this year it is a bit of brown and a bit of Royce and Rush.

We have missed oppertunities with the back 3 and that was well within our power to change, 2 or 3 times. But we decided to stick for some reason.

I see what you did there. WERE better than, not are now better than. I never compared them, another poster said that. I stick to saying Ratchford & O'Brien are still better than them.

Thats your opinion and fair do's i hope your right,i know its early days but the signs look dreadful,you say were relying on too many kids in the backs,but who else is there?The squad that thin there is some people talking about Wilkin at HB ffs he's had 1 decent game in there to my knowledge,
This myth that people go on about our BIG PACK,as i've said earlier our only true Prop is Perry and he could'nt bust a paper bag,the rest are blown up 2nd rowers.
Gaskell and Lomax were good in 2011 but they had JG busting a gut in front of them,we flattered to decieve last year,we needed to recruit well this tem in my eyes, Manu was'nt needed,ok Dixon aint in his league,but he was young,keen and is tackling for fun at Salford and most certainly on a fraction of Manu will be on.
Turner is without doubt a cheaper version of Shenton,only Shenton could defend and if someone would pass to him once in a while he would have offered more in attack,I know the Hull fans were'nt dissappointed to see the back of him.
I'm trying to stay positive but the realisation after getting trounced by albeit a very good Huddersfied,scraping a win against the 11 men of the Chemicals and clinging on at the end against a Hull side missing a few of their better players,its very difficult,i suppose the test will really come against the Wire,Pies and Leeds i just hope it dont get too embarrassing as it could set the youngsters back years

It's very similar to be honest and I consider it to be the same team really.

Turner for Shenton was a pretty signifcant downgrade. I honestly don't see what the club saw in Turner. I think if anything the Chairman was so impressed by his length of the field try against us last season that he offered him the deal that night. The guy is a liability in defense, teams will walk in down his side all season. He is really annoying me with his side step shimmy that he does every single time he gets the ball, rather than running it in hard. It's more like a form of torrets than a viable evasion technique.

Walmsley for Dixon isn't an upgrade either. Walmsley may turn out to be a good player, but he might not as well. Dixon was a reliable backrow squad player.

Manu in for Flannery in theory is a significant upgrade, which offsets the centre downgrade and leaves us all square. But if he continues to play for as long as he is currently he will continue to be poor, he is an impact player and needs to be played as such.

I clearly stated "If we could get Gaskell and Lomax back to their 2011 partnership standard". If your going to come on and pick holes in a post, at least read it.
That year Lomax picked up young player of the year and was selected in the full England squad - withdrawing after getting injured in the GF. Many of us who watched them throughout the season were equally impressed with Gaskell and pundits were even speculating whether this was goign to be the long term partnership for England.

2012 was a write off in many ways for the club, so its not so suprising the form of some of our young players suffered. Mind you, Lomax still finished the 2012 season with more tries and more try assists than Myler or Briers (in the league, at least).

So I repeat, if we could get Gaskell and Lomax back to their 2011 partnership standard, then I would take them over Wigan's, and there would be a fair argument vs the wire lads.

I want to know who the person is who started the myth about Turner's defence being so bad and Shenton's being so good.

NEWSFLASH: Michael Shenton missed more tackles than Jordan Turner last season. Turner also scored more tries, made more clean breaks and more tackle busts and made almost double the metres that Shenton did.

But if saying Shenton is/was better than Turner suits your agenda, then please continue.

I still maintain that 3 games in it's far too early to be judging individuals or teams. Pretty much all teams should be able to start the year on an equal footing if they are spending up to cap and have had a good pre-season.

Everyone will be full of energy and running, those looking to make strides towards the end of the year, will be at a lower pace and those looking to do better than the wooden spoon want to get off to a flyer.

Really there has only been Salford (for obvious reasons) that are not competitive.

Anyone involved in the predictions competition can see that generally 5 out of the 7 games have been decent games.

We had a blow out in the first game, probably because we where not expecting what hit us and because Huddersfield as usual where straight out with avengence.

It's a discussion board so opinions are bound to fly, but some where questioning the coach after the first game, that to me is just agenda driven, people latching onto a handy result to push their own preconceived notions.

Last time you played at Odsal, you sacked your coach and froze out a young player who came through your ranks straight after.

Things can't still be that bad surely?

We seem to have improved since last year thank god. Should be a fun game. Although would have been better on Friday night.

This is not Saints' worst squad, however, I believe it is the most under-performing squad compared to its 'on paper' potential. For example, on paper Perry is top class, etc. etc.

I think this sums it up well actually - we dont suffer from a lack of talent but I do wonder about the lack of character and leaders

We're playing like a bad team, but we're not. I'm confident we'll get back on track at Bradford on saturday.

There is a huge decision to be made about Gaskell. Potential is there, can he deliver is the big question. If we let him go then expect him to walk into (insert playoff team here)'s open arms. Will he develop better there, who knows.

Jamie Soward would be nice.

Don't normally agree with a lot of "Saddened's" stuff but in the above statement he is bang on. Our mind set in games has completely vanished, there doesn,t seem to be much spirit in all the team from 1 to 17 and that includes Roby.
What,s frustrating is that Superleague at the moment is pretty poor, we would only need some moderate improvement to be back in the top 4 mix, but like Saddened has mentioned we don,t have anybody with leadership qualities and inspirational plays. There is a lot pressure on Gaskell now to be creative under pressure, we somehow need to string a few wins together to promote form and confidence.