Early in the year our back three of lomax, swift and tommy had made more meters than any other back three in super league.

At the moment swift is carrying the back three and doing all quinlans kick returns for him.

Swifty has improved loads this season, he makes the odd error now and again but he's been brilliant as the season wore on. Chuffed to bits for him, he's a nightmare for the opposition, his foot work reminds me of Jason Robinson a bit. Wish we could revert him back to his old pre saints position of stand off.

Of course - having either a dysfunctional or no halfback partnership at all (for almost all of the season) couldn't possibly have anything to do with our yardage stats.

Last season we made 35 829 metres with one recognised half back (Walsh) who managed only 16 games. For me Brown had us playing a more expansive game despite adjusting to Plan B.

This season we made 28 419 metres with two recognised half backs, Walsh who has managed 16 games to date and Burns has managed 25 games to date. I think KC has had us playing a more conservative game.

Our pack was probably a bit more dominant last season, this season our pack doesn't seem to have laid a platform for our half backs, which probably contributes to the dysfunction you have mentioned.

No I can't see how that would effect the meters or go foward at all. Yes it wouid effect our attack, yes it would effect our kicking but no it doesn't effect how many meters our pack makes.

If anything our lack of go foward effects our halves massivley.

I don't get where your coming from with no halves this year. We've had Burns fit nearly all year. Wilkin coverd walsh early on and many want Wilkn as our half anyway. Luke walsh has played the last ten and picked up two MOM in last month so compared to last year we are much better in the halves.

The problrm is our pack at the moment. We have to many Young lads like thompson, sav, Richsrds, sav and greenwood playing who at the moment can't physically stand up consistsntly each week. That's leaves us very short in the pack for go foward. Vea missing hasn't helped. We miss Sia and manu big time. Two proper players that physically stand up week in and week out.

Tasi will bring more meters next year if he can get back to the way he played until this year but we are in dire need of another meter making prop.

This must rank right up there among the most [uludicrous[/u statements ever made on this board. Truly Olympic standard. Bravo!

I'm not going to bother debating the point. It would be like attempting to prove the existence of the moon.

[uNote to self: stop wasting precious time on fools.[/u

Lol at Mugwump ignoring every valid point made to him and picking out one sentence and taking it massively out of context to try and "win" a discussion.

That's ludicrous.

Please do explain. I like to Learn more about the game as I can and have a real thirst for rugby league knowledge and who better to learn off than you.

I'm Still learning the game even at the age of 34. Having only played the game for 24yrs as a stand off and coached for past few years I still have a lot to learn in the hakfback role.

Sorry for my ignorance but I always beleived it was the forwards that mafe the meters letting the halves do there job at the correct end of the field. I always felt it was easier with a dominant pack that made good meters. I found it much tougher when stuck in our own 30m zone then having to kick deep.

Obviously ive been coached terrible over the years by some very good coaches at amatuer, acadamey, A team and barla level.

You know what they say tho, everyday a school day

I don't wish to stoke this argument, but if you check the top 10 players for metres gained, 5 of them are backs.

If you compare us to Leeds, not only are we lacking on metres gained, but we're well behind on clean breaks (which lead to a massive gain in yards).

The problem with the pack isn't all about personnel, we've got that. Big guys in Mose & Walmsley, Grafters in Amor, Flash and Wilkin, Big Guys on the fringes in Greenwood, LMS and Vea, the indomitable James Roby, plus a good set of youngsters. It can be improved, but its hard to get a perfect roster.

What we lack is, consistent line speed, discipline, we don't seem to get fast play of the balls, we don't seem to slow the oppostion's PTB enough and we don't really do much offloading.

Past that, into the backs, we don't get enough decent ball to our centres (how many time did Percy get decent ball against Wigan). Too many of Walsh's short ball to forwards are being too easily read and they're getting snotted.

ALL OF THIS means we're down on yards, we're down on clean breaks and we're winning games "somehow".

We are way down on tackle busts and clean breaks compared to last year which might explain in part our poor metres. Our missed tackles and penalties are up from last year which means we have to work harder without the ball.

If you take away Walmsleys stats this season, on paper we are a very mediocre team.

Our biggest problem is Offside Monkey Quote=#FF0040 What we lack is, consistent line speed, discipline, we don't seem to get fast play of the balls, we don't seem to slow the oppostion's PTB enough and we don't really do much offloading. This has never been addressed and until we do, then we can't expect to control games like we have done in the past.

I reckon the standard of Superleague is falling year on year, every "top team" has gone through bad patches which was once for a couple of games these days it is 4 or 5 games of poor form, this probably helps us in winning games where in the past we wouldn't.

Obviusly the back three will mostly make best meters as they do kick returns.

I'm more bothered about the lack of getting out of our own half. Look at our packs meters per player compared to wigans last fridsy

Which need to be looked at first, though, in your opinion? Our pack getting out of our half against a very quick Wigan defensive line, or improving our line speed so that it puts a similar pressure on Wigan?

As well as our defensive line being slower, Wigan were getting lots more quick plays, which meant getting yards forward was easy.
You're an experienced player, is this something that some players struggle to comprehend in training - the importance of the wrestle?