Eh? Gleeson was 10 times the player at his peak that Shenton is or will ever be. When have I ever tried to compare the 2 on a qualitative basis? Anyone who attempted to do so would be mad. Maybe Gleeson [idid[/i have as little service as Shenton did when he burst onto the scene. The comparison is however pointless as Gleeson had pace, a fantastic step and could on his day make something happen from out of nothing - Shenton hasn't and can't.

The point is that Shenton, completely ignoring any other players who've ever worn the Saints #3, to be effective needs the ball in space on the run - he has never had that even vaguely consistently in a Saints shirt yet. It is completely unfair to berate him on the basis that he can't make something dazzling happen when he is not getting good consistent ball - he simply is not that player, and very, very few of them exist in the GB game anymore, certainly not at centre. He's been disappointing as a Saints player to date and a pale shadow of our #3s and #4s past. But he's one of the top centres in the country right now and the best available we could realistically have in the squad. He's had no service when he's been fit and cannot be properly judged or written off until he has both.

Eh? Gleeson was 10 times the player at his peak that Shenton is or will ever be. When have I ever tried to compare the 2 on a qualitative basis? Anyone who attempted to do so would be mad. Maybe Gleeson did have as little service as Shenton did when he burst onto the scene. The comparison is however pointless as Gleeson had pace, a fantastic step and could on his day make something happen from out of nothing - Shenton hasn't and can't.

The point is that Shenton, completely ignoring any other players who've ever worn the Saints #3, to be effective needs the ball in space on the run - he has never had that even vaguely consistently in a Saints shirt yet. It is completely unfair to berate him on the basis that he can't make something dazzling happen when he is not getting good consistent ball - he simply is not that player, and very, very few of them exist in the GB game anymore, certainly not at centre. He's been disappointing as a Saints player to date and a pale shadow of our #3s and #4s past. But he's one of the top centres in the country right now and the best available we could realistically have in the squad. He's had no service when he's been fit and cannot be properly judged or written off until he has both.

The highlights are your own words Hampton. So Gleason was 10 times better; Gleason was not the worlds best by any means. The problem is Shenton has no step or pace and if you give me the ball in space and on the run, I would be effective. As far as making something out of nothing, Josh Jones manged to make yards out of nothing, Ryan Atkins made loads of yards out of nothing when we played Warrington. If he needs to be in the clear when he receives the ball he should be on the wing. In the under twenties preferably. Now hampton how are you going to defend his missed tackles and poor handling

Well, Ex1 my good friend, it's pretty clear you're not the type worth trying to debate reasonably with, but I'll waste my time by paying lip-service at attempting same anyway....

His defence and handling last season were fine on the whole, rather better than fine towards the end of the season in fact. This season he's been recovering from an incredibly serious and near career-terminating injury for ****'s sake.... How much more defence than that do you need? How on earth could you be expecting him to be performing to anything like the same standards as he was before the injury yet?

What is it with people on here expecting players that have been seriously injured to magically recover from it instantly afterwards? How many players get victimised on here for the heinous crime of taking time to recover form/fitness after potentially career-ending injuries? There's always someone constantly getting jumped on by the clueless numpty scapegoat brigade on here for the simple crime of not being fit, whether it be Wilkin, or Gardner, or Wheeler, or Perry, or Pryce, or whoever the current flavour of the month is to unfairly dig the knife into. Injuries like Shenton's take time to fully recover from both physically and mentally. KC was a shadow of himself for an entire season after a similar injury. It's not the players' fault - it's the nature of such injuries. Jeesus H. ****ing Christ but there are some dense buggers on here....

I remember people writing KC off a few years back.

I also remember most people on here calling for Wello to be dropped immediately before the season had even started.

If any players do read these forums, surely it can only motivate them to improve, so by all means carry on

The comparison is absolutely relevant because when Gleeson signed even Huddersfield fans weren't sure whether he was good enough for Saints. Shenton, on the other hand, was knocking on the door international honours!

The point here is Gleeson DEVELOPED into a top class player at Saints. He was by no means a certainty. If anything Shenton has gone BACKWARDS and has yet to repeat the kind of form he showed at Cas that encouraged us to buy him.

Sure, part of this is down to coaching. I'd take Millward (then) over Simmons any day. But the other part is purely the responsibility of the player. He has to assert himself on the game and carve out a reputation. Gleeson did this in his first season and elevated himself to another level whereas Shenton's best efforts are still in a Castleford shirt.

Anderson changed the way Cunningham played though, and we also had the emerging Roby to take some pressure off. Had he carried on the way he was doing he would have been finished. It's also a credit to Cunningham, some players can't adapt to changing physical attributes.

Hampton. If you must berate me for my opinions kindly do so without the blasphemy. As for Shenton; he must be in the running for the title of worst in super league.

Ah... Bible thumper then are we? Listen Ex1, if God had wanted us to care about blasphemy then he'd have existed...

Sorry to whoever this post was referring to, but I found it funny.

Given Wheeler still can't get himself fit again, Shents has been granted a reprieve for such action for this week.

Would anyone be tempted to give Makinson a run in the centre? That was his position growing up, after all.

It's certainly worth a go, and Widnes is the sort of game you could give it a whirl.

I can see Wheeler being let go at the end of the season at this rate.

Is heresy still a ducking stool offence?; if so I would pay handsomely to see hampton drown.

I can't see him being let go as he has a deal to 2014 or 2015.

In the end it's an injury, he has played well in the Centres when he has played, although I cannot forsee any fixture bar the CC tie where we would play with both Jones and Wheeler in the Centres.

It may happen but I think Shenton will always be first pick unless his form drops below average.

A real traditional Christian then, huh? Stoned any good adulterers lately?