We need that 4th senior prop in order that LMS can stay in the back row. The effectiveness of our back row (and indeed whole pack) hinges on this.

I don't like to see three forwards leave and only one come in. We look short in the front row if Thompson and Richards don't turn up next year and let's not forget they only still very young for props so a extra prop IMO is needed big time.

I agree. It doesn't look like one will be coming in though.

Depends on who becomes available between now and when we need someone. Would it be really so bad to start next season with virtually the same pack as we ended last? Vea replaces Manu and Soliola makes way for an interchange hooker.

We've lost a lot of depth (which to attempt to stay on topic is Wigans great strength this year) but that won't affect us unless there are injuries (we still have enough cover for loss of form imo) - but perhaps rather than guessing where the injuries will be, were holding back enough space to cover as an when they happen?

I think you're oversimplifying a little there YG, In the two games where you could argue you competed, Wigan were without around 9 first choice players and in the other played almost the entire match with just one prop. Even then your pack only started make metres in the last 20 mins or so as Wigan's pack, not unsurprisingly, tired. In the one truly representative game where both teams had a fair approximation of their first choice pack (and, tellingly, at a time Saints were playing their best rugby of the whole season) your pack was comprehensively outplayed. The 2015 Wigan pack looks much stronger with the additions of Mossop, Tautai and Patrick plus the return of Tomkins who, with a full pre-season and the experience of the GF and 4 nations under his belt, will add a lot to an already strong back row. Add the depth afforded by Greenwood (who showed up well in an outgunned London side last year) and, particularly, Sutton who looks a great prospect in his own right and that pack is without question much improved from 2014. Converseley, I think it's fair to say the Saints pack looks weaker. Soliola in particular is a major loss but also the loss of experience and, not least, depth could prove to be a problem for next year.

Yes you outplayed us in one game but using injuries and a red card as an excuse is poor form. Injuries happen to every team and we had our own fair share of them at the time of the game. It might not have been as many as you, but we still had our own. We just got on with it and beat you. As for saying the other game you had one prop, no you had two, but one stupidly got him self sent off.

We may have some half backs next time we play Wigan, and a fullback.

Maybe even a loose forward. Just think what we will be able to do then??

You want to talk about the players who had missing at the DW, but you fail to mention that on Good Friday we had our best prop missing and then for the Grand Final:

We were missing Walsh, Wilkin and Lomax for 80 mins
We were missing the above plus Hohaia for 79 mins
We had no halfbacks for 79 mins
We had a prop at centre
We had a 2nd rower at scrum half
We had a 34 year old full back at stand off
We were down to 16 men

Don't come on here bleating about me "oversimplifying" things if you are then going to be so blinkered.

Ps apart from McIlorum, Green and Farrell, who were the other 6 first choice players missing at DW? Bearing in mind you'd only signed him the week before, I can only assume you're not counting Joel Tomkins.

Why do you think it's poor form? I wasn't making excuses for losing the games, jut pointing out that a comparison of the 2 packs using these games as a yardstick was ultimately flawed in much the same way as comparing Wigan's halves to your GF halves would be a flawed way to compare the relative strengths of our 2015 pairings. Do you think I'm wrong in this? If so, why?

I think your halves next season will be the stronger pairing. Full back depends on a number of factors but is possibly even. Who will be playing at LF? I'm guessing we'll still have the edge there with O'Loughlin, injuries notwithstandng of course!

Fair enough, apologies for the "bleating" comment.

I assumed we had moved on from discussing just the packs when you referred to 9 first choice players missing at the DW.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion...personally I'm not quite sure how (logically) you could say Wigan were the best team last season, when Saints topped the league for 20 out of 27 rounds, won the LLS and went on to win the GF but each to their own.