He might have played more games than Walmsley and Amor but I bet you they've played far more minutes, made far more tackles and far more carries for the team than Mose.

They're expected to though because that's the game they play compared to Mose who is brought in for impact.

Whilst he can be lazy and sometimes very frustrating, usually come the big games Masoe is on it and frightens the life out of sides with his impact.

Whilst Tasi may be more consistent than Masoe, I really don't think he'll have that same gamechanging ability that Masoe has.

2014

Tackles:

Amor: Outside top 10
Walmsley: Outside top 10.
Masoe: 363

Metres:

Amor: Outside top 10
Walmsley: 2288
Masoe: 1971

Carries:

Amor: Outside top 10
Walmsley: 270
Masoe: 236

Admittedly, 2015's stats are better (so far). But given that Mose plays less minutes and that figure is COMPLETELY OUTSIDE OF HIS CONTROL this accusation of "laziness" has no basis in reality . Given the same amount of game time he would have been ahead in every department on the 2014 stats sheet.

Also, Mose really shouldn't have played for the first ten games. Had we not suffered injuries I'm sure we'd have pulled him because he clearly wasn't fit. Granted, part of it was his own fault. But in mitigation he had suffered a pretty bad injury. The point I'm making is that Mose played through his issues. And as anyone who has ever tried to lose weight will testify - he worked damned hard to get himself back in shape. You can't be "lazy" and lose two, perhaps three stones of weight. Impossible.

It's his job to be in peak condition.

I know I'm outnumbered on my opinion of Mose. And I know that he's a potential game changer. I cheer him on like every other Saints fan when he takes the ball in and when he's crunched an opposition player. I honestly believe though that Mose would be playing more minutes if he actually volunteered a bit more whilst on the pitch. Taking more carries, getting us out of our 20 etc Exactly like he did at Widnes. He actually seemed to be on the pitch a bit longer although I don't have the stats.

He is lazy, mate. And frustrating. I think most will agree with me on that aspect. When he wants to chip in though, he can be a belting player. However I'd take Walmsley & Amor over him all day long.

So ... why aren't you banging on about Amor being "lazy"? If anyone is seriously down on last season's performances it's Kyle.

St. Pete says he's "100% fit".

If so he's not pulling his weight. What other explanation is there?



This is ridiculous. Mose has no control over the number of minutes he plays. Players who don't put their hands up and "volunteer" don't string together fifty consecutive appearances. Period. The only person responsible for Mose's lack of game time is the coach.

If Mose were as lazy as people claim then his performances would be down in the matches where he plays for longer. But the opposite is true. Mose very often plays better when he's given more time on the pitch. We've had people in this forum CRYING OUT for him to get more game time since last season!

The other thing you seem to be forgetting is just how big Mose is. It's utter lunacy to think a guy weighing in at 20+ stones can go score-for-score on a bleep test with someone like Kyle Amor who I doubt is much over 15.5 stones. Human hearts don't differ a great deal in size and capacity. If Amor and Mose both perform the same action Mose's heart must work that bit harder. Multiply this out over a season and then calculate how much work each player is doing. Not some half-assed back-of-a-fag-packet stats estimate.



He's never been dropped once. You can't get around this fact. It's not as though Keiron is some kind of "nice guy" who prefers not to come down hard on players either. We all know those players who've crossed Keiron and paid the price. It's a pretty long list. A list which Mose has never been on.

This is what I mean, you seem to be blinkered on this 8 mins thing. Mose can,t be placed into any "pigeon hole" category or statistic its more complex than that. It seems as though you have difficulty in understanding that, maybe most of us will just accept the imbalanced criticism or personal opinion.

Human hearts along with all our other organs grow in proportion to our body size. Obviously, if you were to pile a ridiculous amount of weight on in fat or muscle, then that would pile a lot of pressure on the heart. However, Mose is a big big lad, not because of incessant weight training or whatever, because of his genetics. So don't be worrying about Mose's heart if he has to do a bit of graft.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree mate. I respect your opinion. He's not my cup of tea but I'll cheer him on like any other fan but as soon as he puts a poor shift in, I'll slag him off. Likewise, if he plays well I'll praise him, which I have done on pg1 of this thread.

I'm not quoting stats on his time on the field, I'm stating facts. Some games he can't do 10 mins without him looking to the Bench with his hands on his hips or on his knees.

The grand final he lasted 8 mins which is prob a grand final record. Yet some weeks he can do 20 mins no sweat. I think that's just down to atititude and some weeks he just doesn't want to be out there.

I'd say it's more to do with how he uses his energy in the minutes he's on, how much defence he gets through & how our half backs or make shift ones at times use him running onto the ball or just make him lose energy taking flat ball etc. Think it's harsh to say attitude really

Harsh but true.

I'm not worried about Mose's heart. What I'm saying is it is totally unrealistic to expect someone weighing in at 20st+ to have the same workrate as someone who is possibly FIVE STONES lighter. This is why guys occupying the offensive line in American football can barely last four successive plays without gulping down oxygen. It's not that these men are unfit. The NFL has some of the finest fitness coaches in the world and certainly the best facilities. With all the best conditioning, diet, lifestyle etc. in the world, it's almost impossible to squeeze the same workrate out of a 20st lineman as you can from, say, a 16st linebacker (unless he's some kind of genetic freak).

I absolutely agree that Mose's condition at game #1 was unacceptable. Like other "big" South Sea Island forwards (whose love of good food is legendary) returning from an injury which prevents any kind of fitness work until fully healed I do have a certain degree of sympathy. But he let himself down and he couldn't complain when the fans got on his back.

From that point he didn't miss a single game and he worked damned hard to get the weight off. In no language is that the behaviour of a "lazy" player. Lazy players make a half-hearted stab at tackling the weight problems and yet never manage to deal with them in full.

At the end of last season Mose was lean and fit. Just as he is now. If he's sometimes down on his haunches in games then maybe it's because he's lugging close to SEVENTY POUNDS more bodyweight than someone like Amor.

Seriously, if I placed a SEVENTY POUND pack on Kyle Amor's back do you think he'd just carry on as if it were a bag full of feathers?

This isn't rocket science guys. It's ABC stuff. I find it curious that whenever Mose starts breathing heavy or doesn't carry the ball on a set of six the FIRST RESPONSE always is "he's lazy" when there are other explanations which are not just more plausible but far more fair on a guy who has never missed a game and never been dropped.

Oh, and when it comes to protecting his teammates from the opposition's roughest, dirtiest players he's [uALWAYS FIRST MAN TO STAND UP. [/u

I've typed out several responses and deleted them, because I figured, what is the point with getting into this discussion? You have an opinion, so do I, and they're different. You won't change my mind.