The likes of Bateman and Copkzak seem to be headed the way of Warrington and Huddersfield. Bateman is another fantastic prospect who we're not in the race for. Another potentially great signing for Warrington. Sure we can't sign them all and they won't all blossom into all-time greats, but when clubs like Warrington are signing 4 or 5 like that they are added players to their squad that will be there for 10+ years potentially and forming the backbone of a squad that could rumble on for a decade. Wigan have a far better youth system than we do so are producing Tomkins' and Charnleys etc. So do we just accept that they are better than us and not bother?

Yes, we missed out.
I wouldn't have touched him with a barge pole, tbh. Too much work to do in terms of his centre game. Wire had a lot of depth in the 3/4s at the time with King and Bridge so could take on a bit of a project.
I agree, but would have like us to take a punt on him. I think getting him over this side of the pennines might have been a struggle, though.
Lynch would have been a near perfect replacement for Graham, I reckon. A good captain too. Laffranchi's money would have been better spent on him, to be brutal.
signed as a youngster as a project, so Leeds have developed him into the player he is.
Would have been very expensive and pursued by many clubs.
Looks good, but good enough to make a difference to our position?

Warrington are seemingly operating to a different rulebook to the rest of the league financially it's very true but it's unfair to compare them to us in that regard as we just simply don't have that kind of money to throw around (or more to the point hide in legal loopholes) and noone else does either Leeds possibly apart. Compared to the rest of the league I still don't see how we're doing that badly with regard to our recruitment and, to hammer the point home again, you can't sign everybody... In just the last couple of years we've won an expensive bidding war on a current first choice GB international 3/4, signed a couple of recent past Aussie internationals and nabbed maybe the best second row in the league over the last few seasons. This apparent lack of ambition and contentment with mediocrity is just myth. You can question the judgment but you can't question the intent.

100% agree with this.

That's a big allegation you are making there. Warrington aren't cheating the cap, they are just better at developing a squad than we are.

Whoever decided it was a good move to sign Lance Hohaia needs to be removed from the club, if they've not already left. The signings of Flanagan and Laffranchi as a prop have also turned out to be terrible. Perhaps you are right, we're just doing a poor job of developing a squad. But whatever the cause, surely not signing players can't be the way out of it?

Bateman is a back rower and we definitely dont need any more of them...he wouldnt play in front of Soliola, Manu, Wilkin or Flanagan and would command big money due to him being in demand which I think would be more than he is currently worth. If what I have heard is correct, Hull have offered massive money to Bateman and he will sign there for next season.

As for other clubs signing players as a project, Turner has been signed as a project - a good young player with a lot of work to do but the potential to develop into a quality player - and nobody seems happy because he isnt a world class signing. For me, Flanagan is still young and developing and he is more of a project for the time being, but in 2/3 years will become a fantastic back rower for us.

As for half backs, look back to the start of the season when Royce used Lance at 1, 9 and sub to accomodate Lomax and Gaskell...we had no direction around the park, looked lost and were losing to teams we should be beating comfortably. This highlighted for me that, whilst they have ptoential to develop into a great 6 or 7 partnership they lack the experience collectively to do it regularly at the highest level. Like it or not, as a team and individually for Lomax, we have improved since Lance moved to 6 as he is experienced and knows how to organise. Whilst he may not be the best 6 we have ever had, there is nobody on the market that is available to come in and play 6 any better for us so its a no-win situation there.

We lost Jammer (who did the work of 2 front rowers for us) and was never going to be able to replace him and therefore our front row could do with a big, strong front rower to make yards galore and look at 30+ tackles a game...but realistically who fits that bill? I would love a creative stand off/scrum half who can rip teams apart on his own...but again who is available? I long for the days of a Lyon/Gidley flair centre to make one of our wingers score tries for fun...are any available?

We can all dream about signing this player/that player, but if there isnt the talent available its a non starter. And for the Wellens out crowd, what are your thoughts to the super Warrington re-signing Brett Hodgson for 2 years? Obviously they are a club that only sign the best players and we should be like them, yet Hodgson's stats for this season compared to Wello:

Wellens - 14 Tries, 10 Assists, 56 Tackle Busts, 321 Carries, 2139 Metres, 121 Metres Av. Gain, 12 Clean Breaks, 12 Offloads, 9 Errors

Hodgson - 5 Tries, 11 Assists, 21 Tackle Busts, 186 Carries, 1219 Metres, 82 Metres Av. Gain, 4 Clean breaks, 7 Offloads, 12 Errors

One stat you've conveniently missed off is appearances, without that your analysis is useless. Hogdson is a vastly better player than Wellens and isn't hampered by a crippling lack of pace and mobility. He can still chime into the attack and lets face it Warrington can rotate him and play him as and when they like. If they play Ratchford there, they aren't really losing anything, so Hodgson can have a rest whenever he needs to. Wellens on the other hand is terrible, horrifically slow, defensively a liability as he's never where he needs to be and offensively an absolute black hole.

Who fit the bill of a decent prop? Chris Hill did, as did Andy Lynch. Yet moronically we signed a back rower who has been shown up by all the big sides in Super League as not being up to playing prop.

We seem to be locked into a repeated arguement, you claim there is no one available to sign who is better than what we've already got. That's nonsense.

Wellens has played 20 games, Hodgson has played 14, yet Wellens has scored almost 3 x as many tries as Hodgson, not far from 3 x as many tackle busts, 3 x as many clean breaks, his average gain with the ball per game is much higher and Wello has made 3 less errors than him...therefore the analysis represents Wellens to have played about 25% more games than Hodgson, yet a lot of his statistics are well over 50% better than Hodgson has managed...and apparently Hodgson is worth a 2 year deal yet Wello doesnt deserve anything??



2 props available last season, but we chose to go for Laffranchi who for the majority of the year has been our best forward...Lynch and Hill have got more size to them and are out and out props, but Laffranchi has done a very good job for us



Ok then...who? Who is available currently as a prop, stand off, full back or anything else that would be a realistic target for us to sign and is better than what we currently have?

How am I supposed to know who is available? Player's agents don't tell me. But there are always players available and every season for the past 4 or 5 years we could list several players who would have been better for us than what we now have, that have moved to other clubs. Off the top of my head I can name Manuokafoa, Ferriol, Moa and O'Meley from SL who would all get into our team and there are always plenty in the NRL if we could get rid of someone, from a link on the VT Poore, Kite, Boyd, Packer and Cashmere are all off contract and would waltz into our team.

There are also bound to be more of the likes of Chris Hill in the Championship. To say 'there's no one to sign' is just silly, players good enough for our first team will move. We could sort two of the problem positions out internally, Makinson or Hohaia to fullback, Gaskell to 7, Wellens released and a prop signed.

Well how do you know that the players available to sign are better than what we already have?



Again, this depends on quota spaces and wouldnt want to lose Soliola, TP or Laffranchi for them, Perry has been playing well lately (therefore swapping a prop for a prop if he was to go) and Hohaia (and I wouldnt lose him for a prop and hope to fill that gap with a British stand off as nobody is available thats good enough, and Gaskell showed early in season he isnt ready to be our regular 6 just yet). Also, how many of the listed NRL players would want to come to SL??



Possibly, but for every Chris Hill, there is a lot more that look good at Championship level but arent good enough for SL...tony Tonks looked great for Featherstone last year in Championship but how has he done at Huddersfield for example??



When players move on then we have gaps to fill, but if a player is already at the club and is better than whats available then why replace it. As for Wellens, he is our top try scorer this season, still safe as houses and his experience will help Makinson/other young players develop as a full back, if Hodgson is worth 2 years at Wire then Wello defo worth another year for us

You could equally say the same about wigoon, if you supported them, who would you keep? Tomkins. Who else? Difficult to pick any standout players that you would bust a gut to save, but as a team they are far better than the sum of their individual abilities. The most important person at Wigan was McGuire, not the players. As pete says, we have lacked a top coach for a fee years, I'm still not convinced brown is a top coach

Currently Tomkins, Charnley, Thornley, Smith, Leuluai, Finch, Lima, Prescott, Hansen, O' Loughlin. They are going to get weaker, as the whole of SL is, but they've got Tomkins. If we had him at fullback we probably wouldn't have all these threads as he'd improve us drastically.

Their players, whilst not world beaters, are a lot better physically than ours, stronger and more aggressive. They out enthuse us and are far more aggressive.

Alot of those players where playing under Noble and we would not have given the time of day. Head chopper O'Loughlin was a liability previously. Finch had a very so so first year at Wigan, not really that impressive. Charnley and Tomkins have looked class from day one. But so did Eastmond and Graham, yet the RFL where only happy to change the cap rules come the possible loss of Tomkins, by that time it was too late to save those 2 players. Saying that Wigan have a much better youth system is disingenuous. I'll agree it's a better system from the looks of it today, but 3 years ago it would not have been the case.

Instant long term results are impossible. For mine the only issue I have with Saints would be over the mistake made with Eastmond and the lack of replacing Talau. The Eastmond deal should not have been done after telling Long and Smith to go. Talau should have been replaced or kept on at the club.

Tomkins
Charnley
McIllorum
Mossop
Hansen
Hock
O'Loughlin
Thornley
Prescott