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I think we have lots of cover. I guess the really issue is whether we have the quality. The pack seams fine to me, but the backs are shall we say yet to be proven.

We have lots of options for FB so no worry there, but

Centre & halfbacks, are the key areas, I'd suggest that if Brown does not get what he needs from the backs, then this will be his shopping list for 2014 season.

We can say give them time, they may come good, but a coach is looking to the next win not the next trophy 3 years down the line. I'm not one for bashing every player, but if everyone gets a fair crack this year at playing, then it will be down to those players to prove they are SL quality now, I think we have had 2 years of they are young well that will only wash for so long, even for the best loved St. Helens lads.

We don't just lack cover in the centres and halves, we lack any quality there. If jones has second season syndrome we've got problems. I don't class wheeler as he never plays.

I don't think we've got great cover for any postions, the squad is pretty small. The first 17 is pretty good and maybe good enough to win something but after that we are pretty weak.

I don't think you will find many clubs with much depth beyond their first 17. It will be the quality of the juniors which will make the difference when injuries hit.

Could go the other way though , if Jones kicks on and Brown can get the best out of Turner then we could have a good long term partnership . I agree on Wheeler though , he just doesn't seem to be able to string together the games needed to build some decent form and I still cant get over how badly out of place he looked at centre against the goons last year.

lack of quality/experience in the halves will no doubt bit us again this year, Gaskell has basically missed a year of development in favour of a dud in Hohaia

I agree, but a player should not be automatically dismissed due to his size ( I wasn't suggesting that you personally had done so ). There have been some terrific half backs who weren't the biggest. I just believe any player, large or small, deserves a chance to prove themselves. It just takes some longer than others to physically mature.

We have loads of cover and options in the forwards and at #1. We [icould[/i also have a really good 3/4 line and a really effective half-back partnership too by the playoffs, or we could be a waste of space all across the backline again - we're relying on a lot of young inexperienced players all coming good from #2 to #7 now and it could easily go either way at this stage. Brown's got his work cut out but we [icould[/i be a phenomenal all 'round team come the end of the season. Or we could just end up a slightly better version of last season's up-the-middle plodders...

And we may not have many internationals outside the starting 17 but that's simply the stark reality of the salary cap era and it's silly to even try and make a point otherwise - everyone has 18 or 19 established experienced players max and then you're into the kids: it's exactly the same for every team in the league from Warrington down to London.

The point about squad depth is pretty redundant in a salary capped sport. The way around this is squad management, and it is something that Warrington got right last season (few injuries) and it got them all the way to OT.

The back line is the issue for us and if you compare it with the likes of Wigan/Leeds/Warrington it is where we fall short. It is a shame really as our pack is amongst the best in the league and as we found out last year: the pack can get you into great field position, but the backs NEED to capitalise on such territory, and we failed to do that a number of times last season - i.e. Wigan away in the CC, Warrington at home (both times) etc etc.

Outside of Wellens (yes Wellens), Lomax and Makinson I cannot really see any more strike players; Turner is unproven as is Gaskell, Jones had a very good debut season, Meli is an unknown quantity but he was one of the better performers last season and Gardner needs to regain fitness really.

Will our back-line strike fear into the opposition? I don't think so really.

Saints: Wellens/Makinson/Meli/Turner/Gardner/Gaskell/Lomax
Leeds: Hardaker/Hall/Moon/Watkins/BJB/McGuire/Sinfield
Wigan: Tomkins/Richards/?/Goulding/Charnley/Green/Smith
Warrington: Hodgson/Riley/Atkins/Ratchford/Monaghan/Briers/Myler

Pretty poor reading really...

I would[i expect[/i Jones to suffer from second season syndrome. Is there a player that hasn't?

Josh Charnley?

But I'd rather have Goulding and Charnley over Turner and Gardner. I'd rather have Tomkins over Wellens/Hohaia. That's the point I was making.

In the halves they look weak, but so do we considering what happened last year. At least we have youth on our side and hopefully Brown can get them back to how they played in 2011.



I said Meli was one of our better performers - don't be so defensive over him!