FORUMS > St. Helens > Nathan Brown - Saints have a sound base |
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61326_1313411800.jpg Friday 28th March, 2014, a day that will live in infamy...
[quote="Saddened!":fwnfr3rg]Whatever happens they have all been magnificent. Even Wello.[/quote:fwnfr3rg]
[quote="Saddened!":fwnfr3rg]Lance Hohaia can have my babies after that show[/quote:fwnfr3rg]
#theworldturnedupsidedown:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_61326.jpg |
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| Quote: Saddened! "Do we really?
Fullback - No quality. Plenty of players who could be fullbacks, Makinson and Hohaia could be good SL fullbacks
Wings - Makinson is a decent player, but doesn't get involved enough, doesn't appear to be anything in the academy either
Centres - Josh Jones has the potential to be a solid, unspectacular, Talau-esque crashball centre. But other than him we look weak
Half backs - J-Lo is a decent player but I'm not convinced he'll ever find a position. He's no half back, neither is Hohaia. Gaskell appears to be out of favour and although easily our best half, he's not a standout even in SL.
Prop - TP is a quality player, but playing his last season next year. LMS is a quality impact prop. Perry is terrible and Clough a typical 'solid but unspectacular' player. Laffranchi isn't a prop in a million years and gets bullied by all the good packs.
Hooker - The one position in which we do have a standout international player
Backrow - Soliola is developing into a quality player and was less of a liability defensively last season. Manu should bring some fire to the pack and with Robes, TP, Sia and Manu in the 13 we should have a decent pack.
Youth - Our academy teams don't seem to be winning the competitions anymore. I can't name an exciting prospect at the moment, and the players on the verge of the squad like Ashe, Swift, Greenwood etc don't seem to have much about them.
The way I'd describe Saints at the moment is 'solid'. Leeds and Warrington have better teams and better youth prospects than us at the moment. Given how utterly rubbish SL is outside the top 4 or 5 we appear to be close to winning trophies, but I can't see us winning any over the next few years unless our recruitment improves.'"
If this is true, I think we have done very well to finish continually in the top 3 for the past god knows how many years...would say if Brown can keep us in top 6 with that poor quality team he should be made Sir Nathan!!
IMO we lacked an out and out "coach" towards the end of the season...think Rushy and KC did a good job with their experience but it showed in playoff game vs Wire that Smith got them fired up for 2nd half and we came out flat. We have the quality to compete with Wigan (weaker than last season), Wire (not strengthened and old guard another year older) and we demolished LEeds both times we played them last season...if NB can give us something extra motivationally and make one or two minor tweaks to how we play I am confident we will see some silverware in 2013 (as long as Wello manages to make it up the stairs to collect it before 31st December )
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| Quote: Saint Simon "Oh for a half back like Bobby Goulding or Tommy Martin or Sean long now that is essentially what we are missing. Sound base yes, But world class 1, 6, 7, 9? just 1 out of those 4'"
Do we need world class players in those positions to win trophys? Or to look at it another way, which of our opponents have world class players in thoem? Leeds? Wigan? Warrignton? I would say Wigan have Tomkins, who is potentially world class, with three make weights in the others, Leeds have 4 players who aren't world class, and Wire have 4 good, but certainly not world class, players. If we had Scully, Long, KC and Tommy playing at the top of their games, we would walk the league by a mile, but we really don't need players of that quality to win trohpys in today's league.
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6310_1310045241.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_6310.jpg |
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| Quote: SomersetSaint "Do we need world class players in those positions to win trophys? Or to look at it another way, which of our opponents have world class players in thoem? Leeds? Wigan? Warrignton? I would say Wigan have Tomkins, who is potentially world class, with three make weights in the others, Leeds have 4 players who aren't world class, and Wire have 4 good, but certainly not world class, players. If we had Scully, Long, KC and Tommy playing at the top of their games, we would walk the league by a mile, but we really don't need players of that quality to win trohpys in today's league.'"
Leeds combo of Hardaker, McGuire, Burrow/Sinfield is so far ahead of ours that it's laughable to even compare them.
Wigan HAD Tomkins, Finch, Leuluai, which again makes ours look ridiculously poor by comparison
Warrington have Hodgson, Briers and Myler, which bar possibly Myler is again far superior to our own
I've left out 9 as it it the one spot in the key creative positions in which we are ahead. Looking at those names listed, it's no surprise we're the one team out of the 4 to not win a trophy in the last 4 years. Wigan may struggle a bit, particularly WHEN Tomkins leaves, but we shouldn't be using the fact that other clubs are going backwards as a reason to put up with our frankly shocking creative players.
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| Quote: Saddened! ". Wigan may struggle a bit, particularly WHEN Tomkins leaves, but we shouldn't be using the fact that other clubs are going backwards as a reason to put up with our frankly shocking creative players.'"
There is a reason why you are just a random on an internet message board, instead of a head coach.
Come on then Wayne bennett, tell me how you would produce some creative players out of nothing. Tell us all how easy it is when there are none available
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34_1430670222.jpg [url=http://wp.me/p1ImSi-n8:8gr6akfh][b:8gr6akfh]An Ode to Sepp Blatter[/b:8gr6akfh][/url:8gr6akfh]
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| Quote: SaintsFan "We finished third, not fourth, in 2011 and 2012, and this year we were ejected from the CC in the quarters, first time in 12 years, and didn't make it to the GF, first time in 7 years, so I'd say that we now have a less likely 'base' than we have had in a number of years as we achieved less than we had been achieving for years.'"
You can achieve less and still have a sound base for winning the title. I doubt Leeds fans are saying they've no chance next year yet they finished fifth in your Super League.
Quote: SaintsFan "Whichever is the case, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating I guess.'"
It is.
Quote: SaintsFan "That '96 side just needed some direction and discipline. '"
That '96 side needed defence. The year before it was awful.
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| Quote: Saint77777 "There is a reason why you are just a random on an internet message board, instead of a head coach.
Come on then Wayne bennett, tell me how you would produce some creative players out of nothing. Tell us all how easy it is when there are none available'"
Classic.
1 - Drop the door mat
2 - Play Makinson at fullback
3 - Promote Lee Gaskell to 6
4 - Play Hohaia from the bench
Boom! Two of the 3 problem positions are sorted. And that's before I go hunting for players.
Realistically the club has to do the above. It also has to start getting itself in gear with recruitment. Good players ARE, ARE, ARE, ARE, ARE, ARE available. In the past few seasons we COULD have signed Hardaker, Ratchford, Eden, Hill, Dureau and Bateman, for a combined outlay of about the equivalent of a Ford Mondeo.
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| Quote: McClennan "That '96 side needed defence. The year before it was awful.'"
True.
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40218_1286737075.jpg Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg |
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| Quote: McClennan "You can achieve less and still have a sound base for winning the title. I doubt Leeds fans are saying they've no chance next year yet they finished fifth in your Super League.
'"
Big difference here: they have actually won the title in recent years. We haven't won so much as a Blue Peter badge.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Big difference here
and the only difference between us and that leeds team is an effective 6,7 and 13
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| Quote: Saint Simon "and the only difference between us and that leeds team is an effective 1,6,7 and 13'"
Typo corrected
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| The scope of 'sound base' is highly subjective and entirely dependant on your perspective...hence the pointless debate!
We have as much of a 'sound base' as every team except from Leeds.
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| Leeds sign Joel Moon, we sign Jordan Turner. Does anyone feel short changed?
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| Quote: Saddened! "Leeds sign Joel Moon, we sign Jordan Turner. Does anyone feel short changed?'"
Considering that he'll have cost a bit of money and the fact he was reported to be homesick, I don't personally.
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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44308_1279480467.gif Mugwump mocking mental illness for a second time -
"You are mentally ill and I can't indulge your madness any more"
Utter disgusting abusive remark from a keyboard warrior:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44308.gif |
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| Quote: bewareshadows "Joel who???
Leeds tried to sign Joel moon at the back end if last year, he certainly not a last minute choice and he's a very very good centre. Joel moon is a wingers centre as is Lulia and both are much better than Turner.
Turner has a raw talent and let's hope Brown can bring him on a level.
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