He used to be on the pitch during the warm up and huddle the forwards to pep them up, not seen him do that in a long time

He's our forwards coach, that should tell you all you need to know about his coaching abilities

Pull his statue down then and put it in our dressing room and it will do more use as him now?

I do fear we have become a retirement home for former players.

Sure Wigan have their fair share too, but we do seem to be getting chock full, to the point where players still playing are waiting for a spot to open up.

Maybe we should not be hiring players the second they retire and we should just be getting the best man for the job.

I'm starting to fear the opposite - that people underestimate how important having people like Wellens and Cunningham around the club is. I get very nervy reading some people advocate a mass clearout of some of the proudest and most committed players the club has ever had.

Do we really think the attitude around the club would improve by getting shut of the likes of Wellens and Cunningham?

People are casting envious glances over at Wigan and the part played by Wane and Radlinski as home town boys, yet think our way to a more passionate club is cutting ties with our passionate past?

Well why isn't Kieron & Wello getting the best out of the players now?
Kieron should be bouncing them of the dressing room walls and demanding the war like attitude that Wane's boys do at Wigun?

Wane served his apprenticeship under Maguire - he didn't need to send them bouncing out of the dressing room because Maguire (as HEAD COACH) was more than capable of doing that.

Keiron is assistant to Brown. He is not head coach. He doesn't have the final say on tactics like making our outside backs cart the first 4 tackles in our own 20 metre area. Those tactics actually have a massive impact on how we all view our forwards because we never see them doing the tough stuff, but then again I think they're told not to!

Keiron isn't the one standing up at half time in a game we're getting mullered, with a defeatist, hands in pocket stance like Brown did at the weekend.

Wellens, when on the pitch, provides the sort of influence you would expect him to. He's not on the pitch enough in my opinion (we often look a different side when he is) and it's difficult for him to influence these car crash starts to games from the bench. Having said that, I dread to think what this team would be like without him there every day in training. You could see what it all means to him after the game at the weekend.

Cunningham and Wellens do not pick the team and do not decide whether to drop under-performing players. I get the feeling that if Wellens was picking the team this weekend we'd see some casualties.

The lads we have aren't capable of a war-like attitude and that's the problem. We've signed yellow-bellied fluff while Wigan have prioritised toughness and mental strength as the number 1 attribute for any new signing.

How can you fear the opposite. We are where we are and the people are in place. What track record do these people have outside of playing?

Did any of them go to another club and get experience elsewhere?

Not all players are great coaches and some of the best coaches in the world were not the best players.

Like I say we are already looking for a coaching position for Wellens, some want Longy back? Longy has at least gone elsewhere for some experience and to build up a proven record in coaching. Although now is probably not the best time for him to come in.

All these people were in place under Royce too. If a team performs badly the whole team needs looking at not just the figure head.

We,ve just been discussing the very thing that Wellens should be 60-70 mins on the field and not 60-70 mins on the bench, no other team in the comp has the team captain watching the game for such a long period without direct influence.
Either that or don,t pick him at all in the 17 and give the captaincy to Walsh or Wilkin, attitude is a BIG issue from now on otherwise we are not mentally fit to compete in Superleague.

Yep, and "where we are" (in my opinion) is a couple of tweaks away from a side that can genuinely challenge.

I don't think the tweaks required are getting rid of Cunningham and Wellens.

There are a lot of things I don't agree with, and they are down to Brown, not Cunningham/Wellens:
- Playing with your captain on the bench for 70 out of every 80 minutes
- Refusing to drop underperforming players to your feeder club
- Not instructing your forwards to carry the ball out of your own 20 in early tackles when being pinned down (I have no issue with wingers taking early drives, but not when you are penned in your own half for 25 minutes!!)
- Insisting on starting with a weaker pack when there are options on the bench, then seeing yourself massively behind early time and time and time and time again
- Openly claiming that games against big rivals are just another game
- Incessant swapping of halves week to week and even in game

and so on . . . .

Hey up, is it Cunningham's time to get slaughtered now?

There's something clearly not right at the club. I've seen everything and everyone get blamed from players, coaches, kit man, the woman who works on till in ticket office...the problem isn't down to the players conditioning, fitness etc It's attitude, plain and simple. That comes from Brown. I have no idea why but there's unhappiness in the camp and it's up to Brown and nobody else to nip that in the bud...but for some reason instead he appears to be pouring petrol on the flames. He's not dealing with the problem and even though we're 1 point off top, that's deeply concerning.

So its Brown's fault. Presumably before that it was Simmons' fault, then Potter's fault. Maybe it was Anderson who started the rot before 'getting the hell out of Dodge'?

It would appear that someone at St Helens clearly has a gift for seeking out inadequate coaches!

Blimey, what a terrible season you are having, only second in the table. Where will it end?