We did in the opening two games, but in our last game against Wigan we were comprehensively outplayed like we were in last years Grand Final. It worries me that we haven't learnt our lessons and Wigan know how to play us. Good Friday gives me hope that we can challenge them on our day.

Wigan are certainly not unbeatable but if they play how they did in the first 20 mins we will struggle to compete. I don't think we can play at that high pace and physical like Wigan did. They was very physical in defence and that's something we don't seem to have.

If we could weather the storm for 20 mins either side of the first and second half we'd be in with a chance but they tackle very hard and very well.

I know what you mean, the last game against Wigan was woeful. But even in that game we created chances against a tiring Wigan, but we could not hold the ball for toffee. I think our completion in that game was about 40 - 50 %. Which is about as bad as we have performed all season. We were totally out muscled in the forwards. It was also the week after the exiles game, in which nearly are entire pack played and backed up 2 days later. I know Wigan players also played. But it was mainly TP, Soliola, Graham, Wilkin, who we needed to have an impact against wigan and these where the ones backing up that week.

The next week against Wire, they where much better, but where let down by Gaskell who had a bit of a shocking opening 20.

I'm not saying we are favourites, but I think we have the ammo to hurt wigan and Wire, we just need to get it to the field.

Well Evans and O'Brien looked the part when stepping in and we have a very good U20s team, are they good enough? god knows.

Also with said players retiring that would also leave a rather large chunk of cap space and signing on fees isn't a problem with our owner.

So predictable that the other teams haven't been able to stop it yet

Damn you!!!!! was just to post the same.... "Off the cuff " rugby equates to desperate rugby in my book.... hate it...

As predictable as Wigan passing to Pat Richards for a try?

Thats why Josh Charnleys scored 18 this season, and Sam has scored around 15 I guess?

If you want to go down that route, them years the likes of Ade Gardner topped your try scorers, is that just because Saints were dull and predictable because all you did was pass it to him via Jamie Lyon/Matt Gidley?

Take your Saints specs off and enjoy good rugby league.

Really, I think you can have structure and off the cuff. Tomkins is fairly off the cuff and we have done so good stuff too.

I don't think there are any absolutes in sport and as soon as you think you have discovered a winning formula that's when other teams go by you by rethinking the wheel.

Sometimes it's big players that are the fancy of the day, other times speed, other times a mobile pack. Some times it's ball handlers other times it having a kicking machine that help.

Some would say defence is the key at the moment, but it will only be a matter of time when an attacking side rules the day as when all defences come to a standard it takes the team that can attack to make the difference and as soon as everyone latches onto that, defence will be king again.

Tomkins is so off the cuff he doesnt even know himself what he is going to do when he gets the ball. A rugby genius like Sam does cause problems for his own team, sometimes all you can do is give him the free reign and back him up when he produces another gem of RL genius

I said elsewhere on this thread that the only players who are off the cuff at Wigan are Leuluai and Tomkins.

Congratulations. 1460 posts and finally one that's worth reading even if you have lathered it in sugar-coated Wigoon cheese.