Ultimately, yes.

A strong coach would have a grip on things.

To the poster above, yes we're doing great in 2nd place however us fans are concerned about what's being said by our chairman, our coach and our captain. Them 3 are using the media to show the clear discontent in the camp. Are we supposed to just ignore what's being said because we're 2nd in table?

Who knows? We now have another three players missing including Lomax and Walmsley. I would imagine a slide down the league table is what is coming next.

Think people forget Waney has been a coach to a lot of these players since they entered the game as young lads he was like a second dad to them and they still respect him today as they did then.

You have spoken more sense in that post than I have seen from anyone else. People need to wake up to the point you make. Getting rid of your coach, repeatedly (by means of firing or non renewal of contract) is not the answer. Sacking players that consistently under perform IS!

Sacking players is the most ridiculous statement on here:

a) players count on the cap, and that includes any payoff a player gets from a dismissal (oddly firing due to poor form isn't seen as a legit reason to change your team) - so even supposing a player only has a year left on the contract, you can't bring any one in to replace them, because you don't have the cap space to replace them.

b) even of you could, players don't join teams who sack for things as frivolous as form. Certainly not good ones.

c) more to the point - who would you sack? And when? Lms was in great form at the end of last season, and the majority had no qualms with his contract extension at the start of the year. Even with perry/ hohaia who arguably never hit the heights they were supposed to, when is the final solution the only solution? Until recently, there were those on here (myself included) who would consider wheeler re-signing (for a paltry figure) to remove the threat of the decision to let him go haunting us for years (fortunately wheeler is doing a good job of that himself) - people like soliola had a shocker of a first season and would probably have been let go - he's been one of our most consistent performers in recent years.

d) even supposing, we pick the perfect time to remove a player from our services, were able to in a way which had no impact on our salary cap, and without affecting our future ability to recruit players - who would be available to replace them? The players available are going to be the ones who aren't wanted at their own clubs or not good enough to make it abroad - why would we want other clubs rejects when we have our own?

No, we may be carrying some average players at the moment, but so is every team. What makes jordan James look like a world beater compared to lms is the quality and quantity of coaching staff around one and not the other - not just the head coach -until we recruit a first class TEAM, not just the head - players and coaches will come and go with the same issues occurring.

I don't think cunningham will make a good saints coach unless he spends some time away from saints. He's too close to the club.

We've some catching up to do before we reach wigan's 90's/00's coach consumption rate though.

He doesn't necessarily need to spend time away from the club, but he needs to spend more time in the background - he will only be ready when everyone around the club remember him as a coach from the first day they were at the club. Right now, he'd be coaching players he played with, let alone started coaching as youngsters, and that's a bad position to be in.

Whether he spends the time at another club lower down the divisions, or in the back ground of saints is his choice - but he certainly isn't ready for top job (though I'd love to be proven wrong - imo we need a coach to be able to come in and work long term, too many times have we had coaches for a couple of years then move on - there's no consistency in that!)

KC isn't a inspiring type of guy. As a player he was a leader by doing things on the pitch, not by talking.

Anyone who knows KC will clarify, he's a quite spoken type of guy. IMO he's not first team coach material.

We need a ruthless coach who won't stand for not performing.

I thought it was interesting that it looked like Cunningham was giving the team talk just before we came out for the game.

What on earth did he say??

I loved him as a player, one of the best i've ever seen. I just have never seen or heard anything that even hints that KC will ever make a good coach. He seems too nice, unable to separate himself from the players

Wellens appears to have the "streak" to rip into the players and seems to be on the same wavelenth of McManus, so who knows!

Doesn't Wello come from teaching stock? If so, chances are he will have 'the streak'!

Shouting isn't always the best way. I know this from my time as a Military Instructor at a Recruit Depot. Basically, if people don't want to buy in to what you want to achieve then they just won't.

Who said anything about shouting?