I think you'll find we have played Leeds this season already and so we are well aware of what they do and don't have.

So had Warrington!!

Indeed.

We had also played Wigan already this season and knew what they did and didn't have. So had Warrington.

What was your point exactly?

Do you think the Saints backline has the pace that Leeds has?
That was the point Chairmaker and I were discussing in a friendly manner yesterday.

Our backline does indeed have pace to burn. So much so that we have to on occasion throw the pass forward of the man, which is a bit of a bugger when the ref gets a bit picky!

It's a genuine 50/50 game for me. We've peaked at the right time both physically and mentally, and that's a big plus after the season we've had.

For me its simple. If the saints team approach this game the same as we would with wigan ie total defence for the opening twenty and our front three running at the centre of Leeds then we will dominate the leeds pack and open them up in the middle.

Leeds have pace but we are no slouches either. This team has a faster line up than last year never mind two years ago. Shenton is fasdter than gidley. Makinson faster than gardner. Lomax is faster than long . gaskell and pryce well thats open to debate. Meli is faster than gilmore. Foster and meli well they are fairly equal for pace. I'm not going to argue who is faster leeds v saints but our pace has increased where as some of the leeds veterans burrows maguire and webb are not as fast as when we last met in a final.

But for me it will be about dominating their pack and the field position. Pace would only come into it if we let them run around our defnesive line.

When was the last meeting with leeds though?

You have to take into account leeds are a completly different beast to the one you faced months back earlier in the season.

Leeds backline is quick but the previous 3 grand finals between the teams were won in the forwards and crucial incidents in the game (meli's errors etc).

We last met in a final 2 years ago. Burrow, mcguire and webbs pace is no different now to what it was in 2009.

Grand finals are won in the forwards.

You're not a completely different beast. You're the same beast but functioning better. All the players are the same. And Webb still likes to pass forward. (I do think he looks like a Mexican bandito when he gets called for a forward pass. I want to put a sombraro (sp?) on him and stick him in a John Wayne movie.)

Similar principles apply as have always applied, eg don't let Burrow run. We will just have to be at the top of our game, like you will.

Beware!

They may keep Rob Burow up their sleeve until our forwards have worked hard and lost that extra bit of speed and concentration. He doesn't need much of a gap to exploit it.

Ch.

compared to our last final against leeds we have gaskell, lomax, makinson and the kicking of Foster. Lomax is better than Burrow, and faster. Makinson is as fast as any leeds player. Gaskell has really come into his own in the last month. Maguire is a yard or two slower than before his injury and Sinfield isnt as reliable as he was. Add to that that their forwards are really starting to get on now, we have the class to eraze some bad memories here

For me the key difference between Saints and Leeds in those three finals (well, maybe just the second and third ones) was that Leeds, under the guidance of Kevin Sinfield, responded with a great deal more composure to both the occasion and the conditions. They played a good territorial game, often kicking early in the tackle count, while we tried to do things out of the ordinary.

I'm not sure Leeds will be as cool headed this time round. They have been playing pretty harum scarum stuff all year and they have a very young and excitable backline. It's been working for them lately, but I'm not sure it's the right approach for a final. I think if Gaskell copes with the pressure and provides a good kicking game we'll be able to grind them down with our big pack and force mistakes out of them. You never quite know what's going to happen in a final, though; teams do strange things.

Indeed. I still can't see us winning. Probably a good thing that though.

I just hope we give it everything. No stupid individual errors, no stupid tries from kicks. If we go there, give it everything and lose, fine.