How quickly some turn on a player! lol

I don't think it's about turning on a player. I wish Greenwood all the best. But he hasn't kicked on from his great early start. When he first broke into the team, his size, coupled with the lines he chose, made him all but unstoppable in the opposition 20. I thought he was going to be potentially a new Sculthorpe. But he broke his leg, and since then hasn't achieved the same pre-break form, let alone moved forward.

St Pete is correct in that he doesn't run his weight. Very tall, thin players are relatively easy tackling targets, so they have to develop methods of making themselves less easy to put to ground, like Scully's handoff, or develop an offloading game to take advantage of height and reach. Greenwood hasn't really done either. I can't say I've seen a problem with his defence, but then a second=row shouldn't have any defensive weaknesses, and we're not short of second-rows who can tackle.

So overall, I think we gain from this swap. But I hope that we make sure he goes with our best wishes and good relationships, so that if he does kick on in the crucible of the NRL, and decides to return to England, he can rejoin us a better player.

Who's turned on him? Most agree he's not a big loss zeb taia is currently better than him. Not one person on this forum from what I've seen has said anything bad about him.

LMS and Walmsley now following him on Twitter.

From an outsiders point of view I agree with St Pete. Approx 18 months ago Joe and Ben Currie both came to the fore and at that time I thought that Joe looked like he could be the better player. But since that time Joe seems to have overall stagnated whilst Ben has gone from strength to strength.

Deal completed! www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... 10774989/-

Deal completed! www.sportinglife.com/rugby-leagu ... 10774989/-

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St Pete - interested you say you watched the 16s and 19s when JG came through. I did at that time too. I remember quite a few of the lads who signed at the same time from Blackbrook as joe and went to Australia on tour with saints.
Where are they now?

Joe Bate
Danny Jones
Marcus Baines
Callum Welsby
Josh Jones - know of him of course now Salford.

I've lost touch with things as am now living abroad so keen to know.

Callum Welsby plays for Blackbrook I believe. Marcus Baines no longer plays and is now a Junior Process Engineer with PQ Corporation after graduating with a degree in Chemical Engineering at the University of Manchester.

Danny Jones was at Barrow Raiders for a spell but no sign of him there now. Joe Bate was at Rochdale up until 2014 but again no sign of him now.

Thanks for the update. Just goes to show that lads who go through scholarships and sign at an early age often don't make it to super league level.
Joe G and Josh Jones being the exception to the 6 lads.
Adam Swift I recall being a late "bloomer" who didn't come through the system until 19/20.

Another example of lads being heralded as "stars of the future" are the Evans twins Ben and Rees signing with Warrington of course. They were quality playing with Burtonwood Bulldogs at the time. Ben suffered with injuries to be fair and now with London while you just have to read the Wolves forum to see how their fans don't rate Rees one bit.

Morale is juniors shouldn't give up if they aren't signed at 16/17.

This signing is another example of how the mentality has changed regarding contracts. Taia has been given a contract equivalent to three years at the age of thirty two. This would never have happened when the club had ambition to win trophies. McManus and whoever advises him are constantly paying on the cheap for utility players who are at best average. Some of the recent signings have been to say the least woeful. I won't bother naming them as I am sure you know as well as I do who they are. Silverware is won by teams who have a few players with exceptional talent in their given position, who in turn can win games with their individual skill. Sadly I do not see any in the red vee.

Do Wigan look like a team with exceptional talent ? Has there recruitment and retention been any good ?

Do two wrongs make a right?

Never being one to lavish praise on the unwashed, I have to say this. wigan improve their youngsters far sooner than saints and have a better record of retention. Also when they feel in need of a certain player they get him , eg Tommy.L to replace the average Matty Smith. Guess where he is now?

saints have produced two home grown wingers who would not get in the 19 at wigan where their, two home grown are international class.
At the end of the day wigan will splash out if the need arises where saints will buy the likes of Tasi and Owen to name but two.

Face it Pete saints have been poor for six years now and are not going to improve with the players they are signing. I hope to be proven wrong.

Savelio was not good enough for saints hence playing at dire, Knowles very promising as was Savelio i'm looking for more from Knowles this term. Greenwood; another disappointment been packed off for a 32 year old.
Swift and Tommy as said before very average wingers. Lomax and Percy have some star quality but need to produce it more often. Robes wont be there much longer. Thompson and Richards are plodders and are there to give other forwards a rest. Not bad plodders mind.

Percy and Lomax have that class about them but need to produce it more often if they want to make the England 19.
Savalio and Greenwood stagnated and have been shipped on. The question is, why did they stagnate.
Tommy and Swift very average in my eyes.
Knowles is a very promising player, I am expecting more from him this time around would hate to see him go the same as Sav and Greenwood.
Richards and Thomo are what they are, replacement forwards, not bad ones though in the same mold as Clough.

There are three players in the lower ranks all over 21 years old Wellington, Grace and Aaron Smith only Wellington has played in the super league with one start yet KC buys Jack Owens, how bad are the saints reserves or how bad is KC.