Aye, and both of those players have proved them wrong.

This.

He's incredibly predictable and very slow. He goes nowhere near taking their line on, he runs sideways instead before throwing a pass to a forward who's stood still about 5 yards from the opposition so they have no chance of breaking the line and just get smashed instead. He offers absolutely nothing. His bottle has totally gone.

This plodding, boring, pedestrian pace is down to him. He takes all the sting out of any potential attack we can muster.

I can't stop you guys from wanting to axe YET ANOTHER Saints coach (remember the calls to sack Brown before he triumphed at Old Trafford?). All I'm saying is that if any person deserves to be given every last opportunity to bring success to the club it's Cunningham.

I wouldn't mind so much if we were languishing near the foot of the competition with a vastly inferior squad. But you'd have to be a fool to believe there's anyone in SL we can't beat all things being equal.

As for "appealing to sentiment" ... well, d'uh! A sport without sentiment would be a pretty poor show.

I'm always amazed by the customer-is-always-right brigade continuously moaning about "boring" football. I mean, no one is FORCING them to pay their entrance fees. Or is it that they too are feeling just a bit sentimental ... ?

Well I feel FORCED to sell or send my season ticket back , I,ve supported Saints for a very long time through good and bad coaches, good and bad players but one thing we have never been is BORING. Since KC took over I backed him up last season allowing him some slack to learn the coaching role, this season is going from bad to worse in how we play, ALL the players are performing worse than last season, the attitude or response of the players to pressure is shocking.
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Our coaching team is so defunct of ideas and have lowered standards so much that KC is struggling with realism in his post match quotes, a 20 min performance in a 80 min game is just not acceptable.
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The true reality is that we certainly have become the most BORING team in super league and fans will turn away (sooner than later) if it continues.

I'm not going as far as sending ticket back but I'm taking a break from the saints games. I'm not going widnes or hull at home next week.

I always go Widnes away, but giving it a miss, think its the first time for about 25 years.

I,m thinking of watching the u/19's games more, maybe you can answer the question I,ve just raised in the u/19's topic.

I bought my ticket for Widnes sometime ago, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

If there is another miserable performance tomorrow: what is the outcome? Especially against a Widnes with no Kevin Brown

LMS
Turner
Wilkin
Makinson
Dawson
Mcdonnell
Burns
Walsh

Those are the players id love us get shut of. I like Makinson but his all round game just isent strong enough id swap him and my left ball sack for the likes of Justin Carney, solomona, manfredi etc... someone who constantly gets your team on the front foot.

Makinson really needs to improve his kick returns, he offers nothing off his own line & consequently the next ptb is painfully slow. Solomona looks a real athlete, but there's quite a few quality wingers around. Makinson isnt justifying the deal he signed to keep him out of Wigan's clutches last renewal.

You can add Tasi, Peyroux, Richards & Owens to that list. This years recruitment is nothing short of negligence, horrific signings.

Sorry, but you're completely wrong about Makinson. He's top4 wingers in SL imo, and his ability to challenge for kicks is the only reason why we have enough sets on opponents line to score at the moment.

His taking in early carries in a set is his weakness no doubt - but why do we keep insisting on using the tactic of using wingers to take the first few tackles? Its not like any one of the back 3 are particularly strong at it. Its up to the coach to recognise this and change the tactics accordingly. I'll put it another way, Owens is probably the best we have for those early carries - should we continue with him even when Swift is back?

Tommy is never top 4 wingers in super league. His kick returns are massive massive factor in our struggles to get any momentum and on the front foot. I like Tommy as his attitude and heart are what we need but he's not a top winger. He's good in defence and on kicks but can't beat a man to save his life. Swifty is better than Tommy but none will ever put a England shirt on.

I do agree with you on letting the wingers take first carries. I'm sure he thinks we have big 17st wingers.

He needs to have a bit more awareness of when to be first receiver at the PTB, if our player is tackled dominantly we are not getting a quick play the ball and its a waste of time Tommy Mak trying to make ground because the opposition defence is set. Swifty is a bit more aware and can see our forward coming down on his front for a quicker PTB and quite often can see a small gap to make more metres and momentum. Dawson is also a bit more efficient with a lower centre of gravity and drive.
Tommy Mak needs to back off a bit more, leave it to the forwards, its not as though we are down in large numbers in the pack at the moment.

You mean like he did yesterday to score his try? He needs a good centre inside him to create, but there are genuinely very few in the league I'd consider swapping him for. I'm not sure Swift is better than him yet (though I'm glad Swift is getting the recognition) but neither are a particular concern at this point in time - FAR bigger issues to fix first!

We went after big wingers, and then decided it wasn't worth the cap space, that is when we should of changed tactics.

Both our wingers are average that backline last night was heartbreakingly bad.

Charnley
Manfredi
Solomona
Briscoe
Hall
Sio
Thompson
Carney
Vidot (yes ibonow his injured)
Lineham
Mcgilvray

All of them are better than Tommy.