Doesbt hide the fact he's not very good. Flash out his hand up to play halves, Wello played everywhere, Josh jones gets moved about, percy got moved to fullback. Playing other postions is part and parcel of the game and that doesn't make Turner special.

I think you could say that for most teams, quality of super league players have been in decline for the last 5 years, we,ve not had any home grown world class international centres and half backs for well over 10 years now.

Thats because Flash, Jones and Wello became utility players and in an injury free side are not 1st 17. Percival had his worst performances in a saints shirt at Full Back. Turner has played half back and loose forward as a last measure because of injuries, he's the best attacking centre we,ve got at the club, nearly all our back line are bad defensively. The opposition have been targeting our left hand side lately and Percival has been missing a few tackles of late.

Do you not find it coincidental that Turner's defence had really tightened up and got a lot better earlier in the year when Wilkin was in the half position, and has got worse again since Walsh came back into the team?

Also would be interested to see how you rate Kallum Watkins & Michael Shenton compared to JT this season (no doubt a lot better), yet when looking at the stats it tells an interesting story:
Turner: 15 tries, 9 assists, 1,681 metres (8.49m average gain), 20 clean breaks
Watkins: 14 tries, 9 assists, 2,814 metres (8.18 average gain), 29 clean breaks
Shenton: 14 tries, 9 assists, 1,989 metres (7.17 average gain), 18 clean breaks

Now I am not for one minute trying to suggest that Turner is a better centre than Watkins based on certain stats (Watkins is best English centre by a mile). But if you bear in mind Watkins has played a fair share of games at full back this year (and therefore due to kick returns will have made extra carries/metres that centres wouldnt normally have to), then it looks like JT's stats are very comparable to Watkins - 1 more try, same assists and a better average gain per carry...on that basis I assume you think Watkins is also "ok in attack but not great"?

As said above, I am not for one minute suggesting that Turner is better than Watkins, but the lad has been one of our best performers all season and one of our biggest attacking threats. Think you are being a bit harsh on him to be honest

Flash isn't untility player, he plays Backrow. He played halves as nobody else to put there. Josh jones isn't utility either, he's a centre that's had to play Backrow and does well in both.

You'll be telling me Lms is a utility player next as he's coverd centre and plays Backrow/prop.

Players have to fit into other posotions to help the team but that Doesnt make them all utility players.

I disagree, in my first 17 Flash and Jones are not on the team sheet and presently are being utilised as back up, they cover many positions and by definition are utility players. Lance and Wello where utilised similarly last year. LMS is not a utility player as he is good enough quality to be be on the team sheet every week.
Perhaps we should not use the word utility and use back up player instead.

What many positions do jones and flash cover ? They are not utility players, they maybe backup but not utility.

Thats fine, we don't have any utility players!

But no-ones slagging of Flash and Jones (currently).
We all acknowledge Turner has his faults, mainly based around decision making in defence, but they're far from the top of out list of things to be fixed imo.

Serious ? You don't think that left edge is near the top of the list of things that need fixing?

That left edge is massive massive problem and 100% near the top of the list.

And has it occurred to you that the main issue with our left hand side edge might actually be a little bald man wearing a number 7 shirt?

Turner has always had faults defensively, but for the early part of the season he was looking a lot better and more confident - even down to shooting out of the line and actually making tackles.

What exactly has changed between then and now??? Earlier in the year we had Wilkin (who is good defensively) operating the half role on our left hand side. We looked a lot tighter and players would have confidence in Wilkin to make his tackles. Cue Walsh coming back in (who lets face it isnt there to tackle but is one of worst defenders I have seen this season) and we look a lot worse.

Maybe it is down to a combination of Walsh's bad defence, and Turner making different decisions due to a lack of confidence in the ability of Walsh but either way our left hand side defence has looked miles worse since Walsh came back in. Maybe Walsh and not Turner is the biggest problem

Had it occurred to you read my posts?

I've said having walsh and Turner tohether is a open invitation to attack us but Turner was a poor defender at salford, poor defender at hull and he's still a poor defender at saints. We been miles open on the left ever since Turner arrived as every man and his dog knows he can't defend.

As you say, we now have walsh next to him that makes it 100 times worse.

Turner's defence didn't tighten up, it's been poor all year. He's 11th in the league for missed tackles, you think this only started when Walsh came into the team? And that stat doesn't even fully illustrate the problem because it doesn't reflect the times where he makes a bad decision causing someone to go through a gap where he should have been, like Leeds' final try in the CC Semi Final.

For your theory that Wilkin fixed the problem and Walsh is now causing it, despite Turner's defence being poor all year: Walsh has missed 28 tackles in 11 games this year. In his 12 games at halfback, Wilkin missed about 35. Turner missed about 36 tackles with Wilkin as his halfback, and only around 20 with Walsh there.

Not saying Turner is the cause of this either, but the last match, with Jones as his centre, is the only match Walsh has missed no tackles this year.