Dudson's garbage. Despite his massive size implying he's got potential, I've never seen him deliver an awful lot.

Patrick was a good acquisition, but I think he's a bit like LMS in that he's best deployed slightly away from the really heavy traffic.
Mossop will be good (perhaps very good) if he can stay fit.
Tautai is the big one for me. I've seen him look very good, but can he graft? If he can't, then maybe your set of props will be lacking in that area, especially is Mossop is injured.

Wasn't Ben Flower out of contract? Did you resign him?
I think he'd be a great signing for Saints, I'm not sure what the reaction would be, though!

Every year Wigan lose players and the Saints fans rub their hands with glee at the upcoming demise of the Wigan side. Yet despite losing these players, Wigan are always competitive and right up there competing for the trophies. Maybe they will be weaker this year but i would not be writing them off and I certainly see them as the biggest rivals along with Leeds for the trophies this year

I think its because more seems to be made of the palyers leaving than the ones coming in. No one cares about Tautai as he was only playing for Wakey, so isn't a big name signing, but he is a BIG signing. Fuck knows how they wangled the Patrick thing, but he's a massive step up from Jack Hughes.

Wane's signed so many props precisely to compete with Saints' front row. It's no surprise considering in both the game at Wigan and the Grand Final, Wigan constantly had to go wide to make ground. Their entire prop rotation made the same amount of metres as Luke Thompson at Old Trafford. They've no answer to Saints up front, especially Masoe's aggression, who has really set the tone on our last two meetings. Wane has signed three props to try and redress the balance. To beat us, they'll have to compete with Amor (who one laughable Wigan dimwit this time last year announced wouldn't get in the Wigan 17 ), Walmsley, Masoe, Richards and Thompson. I have a feeling Savelio will play a bit this year as well. We'll hopefully see Walker come on a bit more as well and Vea will spend a large part playing the centre of the field as well. Saints' front row contingent is unrivalled in SL IMHO, regardless of who Wigan have signed. Wigan's back row is good though, although Tomkins has it all to prove.

As for their backs. Their halves are as pedestrian as it gets in Smith and Williams. Gelling is an absolute turnip. I don't care what they say, he's a waste of a shirt. Their wingers are quality though whilst Sarginson has improved but has to find a centre's line for me before he's anything more than decent. Bowen is an error prone shambles as well.

Props pretty even. You've got to laugh.

Crosby, who managed 20 odd metres in the biggest game of the season and spent half the time on his after Masoe had nailed him, Flower who so enraged at Masoe's early aggression committed an offence that should have seen him locked up and Clubb, who managed 60 odd metres (half that of Thompson and Richards). Indeed, Wigan's props are a scary proposition

Placing a lot of hope in a Huddersfield bencher and an import from Wakefield are Wigan. Mossop has never been up to anything anyway, he wouldn't make the Saints 17.

Honestly don't care. Sometimes it's necessary to provide a balance to the amount of hyperbole that comes out of Wiganer's mouths. They're in a world of their own with their views most of the time.

Every Wiganer is awesome. Everyone else is . That pretty much sums them up.

I've always seen Crosby as a bigger version of Clough. It's no slight but just nothing to put the fear of God in me; my impression may be coloured as my outstanding memory of him is Masoe running over the top of him (the one and only time it happened!)

I think our back row options are underrated - admittedly Wilkin is marmite amongst Saints fans let alone anyone else, but LMS is judged on his form in the front row, despite putting some fantastic performances in the back row which can hopefully be more consistent now he's moved "permanently", Vea comes with virtually no rep but should fill Manus hole very well, and Thompson could be one of the best in the country if he continues his development of last season. were lacking the depth of last season, but we should be just as good as the pack that got us through the playoffs, which is a scary thought!

I think Wigan and Saints are going to be the team to beat next year, and there's not a lot to choose between the two imo

Go and watch the game at the Dave Whelan stadium between us earlier in the season. Crosby spent more time on his than he did stood up trying to tackle Masoe. Overrated lard and if he played for us, they wouldn't rate in the slightest. Since he plays for them, he's obviously AWESOME.

If you read the posts on this thread from those of us who support Wigan I don't know how you come to that conclusion. I have been respectful of Saints as have the others and absolutely no-one is writing them off.

Strangely, if you care to look back at the posts on here after the Easter derby I was one who said that Saints shouldn't be written off just as most of their own fans, maybe even yourself, were doing.

I understand that most teams have their share of swivel eyed loons, but I generally find on here that debate is considered and respectful.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Wilkin gets on this season, given that he should be spending all of his game time in the back row (assuming he isn't displaced by LMS, Thompson and Vea, that is). I know that not everyone agrees with me, but I think we've forgotten how effective he can be in the second row.

You're all respectful of Saints and aren't writing us off ?

Well, thanks for your humility. It's not like St Helens are the second most successful RL club in British history and the current champions and league leaders within the competition now, is it ? I offer my eternal thanks and appreciation that you're so respectful of such a club and are still giving us a chance this season.

Genuine question, have you ever heard yourselves or read back some of the crap you lot post ? You're all ing insane.

Props are 'pretty even' but Wigan are comfortably better in the back row and well ahead in the backs although you're humble enough to acknowledge that Saints' halves look good 'on paper'. Crackpots, the lot of you. It's not like Saints finished above you, won two of the three meetings last year and were crowned champions despite missing our entire playmaking contingent as well as our best prop for most of the season.

Here's the truth.

Bowen is woeful and wouldn't get in the Saints side either over Lomax or Wellens (even at his age). Your wingers are superb. Gelling is crap. Sarginson full of potential but lots to learn. Percival is the best centre on either team. Your halves aren't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as St Helens'. Your props have it all to prove. You rely astronomically on McIlorum. Your back row is good. Farrell top class and O'Loughlin the best player in the comp. Joel Tomkins has shown NOTHING to put him on the pedestal you lot do.

That's about it. You'll be up there again and it'll be a real tussle between us as both sides are very evenly matched. Wigan will have to change their game for me this year to beat Saints. Can't keep playing on the edges and expect to beat Saints. At some point you'll have to take us on up front.

Add to that that our two halfbacks are pedestrian!! Williams is quicker than most SL halfbacks and certainly than Walsh or Burns. Add to that we have the fastest halfback in Superleague just waiting his chance (which he will get this season). Hampshire is the fastest player at Wigan. At 17 he finished 5th in the Super League fastest man comp. Pace is not a problem at Wigan.

I remember him telling us that we would win nothing with Smith and Green at half back.

IMO the best half backs this season are at Catalan, and if they can sort their away form out they will be pushing hard for a top four spot.