5) Chelsea, Champions League. Boom!

I win.

And on Saints, I bet you were one of the fools who thought we were going places under McManus. I said repeatedly years ago we'd end up in this mess and very few listened. I've said above that I recognise the financial implications of sacking him, but answer my question, would you not expect to see some progress by now? If you read my posts from last season when Brown was appointed you'll see I predicted the slow start under him as well. But even I expected some form of improvement by now and it's not materialising.

Must pain you greatly that I'm so popular? If I left, this place would be mothballed within two months.

I'm a Nathan Brown fan, but he was to blame for that poor start IMO.

Why on earth was LMS on the bench? I can't think of any logical explanation for it. He's been our best forward recently. Also, soliola on the bench?

I think he went for a defensive set up at the start of the match. But even the best defensive set up will struggle with ball turned over so easily.

When I saw the line up it looked like soak it up for 20 minutes, the bring your hard runners on to run at tiring legs.

But the team turne over ball to easily and let Warrington control the pace of the game.

In the end it comes back to the squad available. Wilkin can match it agaist weaker teams, but against quality he suffers and because Lance cant kick he is an easy target. Hence a charge down on the third tackle.

Several forwards got hammered in the tackle and lost ball.

Howarth again showed that his pedestrian speed at dummy half will get killed in high intensity games.

I was amazed we got so close after 22-0.

There were problems, but look at that against a good warrington side and the drubbing against Huddersfield and tell me we have not improved.

Since game 1.

FB +ve
Swift and Makinson +ve
Turner Meli +ve
Wilkin +ve Lance -ve
TP same
Laffranchi -ve
Howarth -ve
Walker +ve
Jones +ve
Manu +ve

Bench

Wellens same
LMS +ve
Sia same
Warmsley +ve

It's only my opinion but players that are improving the side are more in +ve than -ve.

we need a back up hooker but Howarth is not it for me.
Lance is not better, but look what GOB did for us in a few games. Even he tonight would have closed the gap with defense and kicking alone, never mind his running game and balance he brought to the team. Warrington are likely to end 2nd and we ran them close with zero halves and kicking on the 4th from the centre position.

Yes we are not great, but we are better than you credit us.

We've been hamstrung by issues with the key positions this year which have lasted pretty much all season.

Given we've had makeshift 6, 7 and 9 all year along with the number of youth players we've had to blood I don't think 5th is that bad a position to finish (as long as we win next week of course)

If hull beat us and Catalan win, we are 7th.

and for that alone Brown should go.

So gentle should be sacked. The French guy at Catalan should be sacked as well.

For me, the strong bench and weaker starting team was clearly an error which Brown has to hold his hand up to, but he is known for tinkering with his team instead of finding his best combination and sticking with it. Saying that, he is working with the hand he was dealt, the no half back issue has killed us all season and our props, for most if the season, have been second rate. Walmsley has been the standout and LMS for the last few games playing from 13 has been in his best form since joining us. As for the rest, well, there is a reason we are vying for 5-7 position in the league, half backs or not.

Whilst Walsh and Masoe will be big pluses next year, I fear these signings may not be enough to get us back into the top 4. We need a 6 and another prop at least. I hear we may be after a very physical english back rower, which will divide opinion, but I think Brown should focus his efforts in the areas where we can make the biggest impact.

McManus will stick with Brown for the duration of his contract, that's pretty obvious, but next season will be the deciding factor as to whether he stays on after year 3 IMO. The club won't want to be paying more compensation to sacked coaches, that's for sure.

For me, the biggest issue was that our last home game at LP, after what is now seemingly a false dawn, was a complete anti-climax. It could still be the last home game for TP, Meli, Lance et al and we went out with a whimper. It certainly wasn't the best advert for season ticket renewals and the business is clearly the most important thing. Our product this season has been sub par, everyone knows that and its a combination of things that has caused it, but mostly out poor recruitment over the last 4/5 years. Unfortunately its like turning a supertanker and only a big shift in our player recruitment will make any significant difference to our fortunes on the field and in turn, make our business more profitable.

I don't think we need a 6 and a prop to be top 4. But we do to challenge.

We got 5th with less this year than we already have next year.

The period with GOB has shown what we can do with a loan halfback.

So give us a fulltime half and some of this years losses become wins.

In the end it's not satisfactory to have a throw away year, but it's been a bit like that. Even so there are positives and whilst last night did not work out I could see the plan with the big fellas on the bench. Brown tries to match a side to the opposition so he does have a plan, but was failed by players turning over easy ball. Wilkin - kick, Walker - carry, there were others but the events are a bit of a blur.

Last night was the most obvious game I have ever seen where the coach lost us the match more than the players.
To pick his opening side as he did and leave better players on the bench was a ridiculous decision. Coaching 101 - start with your strongest team and finish with your strongest team. Why Brown feels the need to mess about with a proven formula is beyond me.
Had we won last night then next week would have been meaningless (therefore a game he could experiment seeing if Walker was a starting prop, putting players again in other roles than their best position) - so every effort to win should have been made, including playing Roby as we have been told he is fit and available, starting on the front foot, aggressive defence and holding them out. Not letting them get a 22 point lead.
One of the worst coaching decisions he has made all year and jeez he has made some of them.

All of the arguments why this year are not relevant when judging last nights performance

Makes you wonder what brown was doing between June and February last year. He had plenty of time to sort out his personnel. As for starting the year without half backs.... Gaskell??? Almost the same as the Lunt situation at hudds.
I thank brown for bringing hudds up a peg- but he's not a top class coach and saints should have better.
Wouldnt have done any worse to keep purtill, and it would have been cheaper!