I hate to say I told you so, but if you read back to my posts when he was announced, I said this would happen. His defensive and offensive patterns are very different to what we're used to and it was always going to take a long time to sort. Not getting him in as soon as Huddersfield sacked him was another enormous mistake from McManus.

Having said that, I've had enough of Brown. He was another coach, like Potter, who clearly didn't want to do the job in the first place. He clearly wants a job in the NRL, but having achieved nothing he's never going to get one. So instead of going home to no job, he's staying at Saints as a backup plan. He doesn't care about the club or it being successful.

When you've got a Chairman who also doesn't give two hoots about winning trophies, you've got a potent recipe.

The whole culture at the club needs to be changed. They don't want to be successful.

I'd keep him until the end of the season but we shouldn't be signing him permanently. I deliberately avoided the O'Brien thread because I had my doubts based on the Huddersfield & Bradford games when he made a few errors but tonight confirmed what I thought that he isn't really good enough for a permanent deal.

As for Saints tonight, it was the most clueless and heartless display of the season. We were poor against Huddersfield but they were red hot that day and we were dreadful against Widnes but we had 10 out. Tonight we were full strength, we have no excuse whatsoever for that shower of a showing. Another disgraceful home performance. Having a season ticket is the equivalent of burning money.

The forwards were dreadful from minute one. I cannot believe Laffranchi is getting a new deal, he is absolutely woeful, he offers no impact. Puletua isn't the same player he was a few years ago, he's lazy and looks like a player that is ready to retire. LMS is the most frustrating forward I've seen in years, he is a penalty machine and it's usually a stupid penalty when we're working our way back into the game that he gives away. Walmsley is the one prop who makes yards for us and tackles hard but at the moment his fitness isn't great. He was lagging a few times and teams start targetting him in defence. He has great potentisal and has had a great season but he's still a young kid learning the game. We badly miss Soliola's graft and aggression in the pack. I posted that he'd be a huge miss for us and it proved that way tonight, He's an irreplaceable player in our team right now.

The lack of attacking ideas was really worrying. Hull KR are 7th, they're not s top team, yet we didn't really know how to break them down. Apart from one good pass from Lomax (for Meli's try) we never really challenged the Hull KR defensive line. Hopefully Walsh can help remedy this next season but he will need a stand off to partner him, we cannot persist with Wellens in that position and Wheeler as we know is unrealiable.

The lack of direction, passion and heart was probably the most worrying aspect tonight. There was not one player in the team driving us forward. It was 17 individuals trying to do a job with no real direction. Since Graham left we haven't had anyone to do it and it was massively in evidence tonight, summed up by the lack of urgency to form a scrum.

I think unless our recruitment and retention approach changes dramtically in the next few years we'll remain trophyless. Myself and DD from redvee discussed how many more years it would be before we won a trophy. He reckoned another 5 to make it 10 without a trophy... it's difficult to argue especislly when players like Wellens, Gardner and Laffranchi are supposedly "earning" new contracts.

The guy who thinks Clough is the answer is having a laugh! A journeyman at best. Howarth should never get near a Saints team fair enough. Brown quite clearly does not know what he is doing. The fact that Hudds have quite clearly improved since he has left is proof of that. We look like we are not coached and never have been, no structure, no set moves. Forwards powder puff, how the fairy Laffranchi gets another year is beyond me. No stomach for a fight. LMS is an embarrassment. The abysmal Potter? He got us to 2 grand finals with less pace than we have now. The second best scoring team in the league with him. .Are we 9th now or 10th with points scored? Also 2nd or 3rd best defence. Again we are 8th or worse in that respect. Doesn't look.so bad now? Simmons was sacked for less than this. Rush looks a coaching mastermind compared to this clown. Out of his depth totally. That was the worst saints display I have ever seen tonight. Utterly devoid of ideas. Brown quite simply has to go.

Paul Clough was ill last night as in sic?

If you believe all the rumours about re-signings, currently our squad for next year is pretty much the same

Walsh and Masoe in,
Perry, Puletua and Meli out.

Not a chance we will be anywhere near the trophies for years to come.

The squad needs smashing up - everyone who is out on contract needs to go.

It can't be long until the NRL comes sniffing for Roby, Lomax and Walmsley and then we will be screwed.

One of the above is not far from going mate.

I'll await the thousand pms I'll get from this post but stuff it i don't care anymore if anything gets out.

My guess would be Robes, given that Jammer has been buzzing in his ear about going over there.

Robes going nowhere. One man club IMO.

I'd say Walmsley. I know the rumours of Lomax to Wigan have been denied, but it won't be long before a Wigan or a Warrington come in for him and why would he want to stay here?

What I witnessed last night was an absolute shambles and I am so glad somebody has highlighted the fact that our biggest problem is NB comstantly changing the team before and during games. There is no more excuses of 'key players' being out injured or NB still settling in, it is clearly evident our biggest problem is we never have no fluidity in our play (attack more than defence) due to his constant tinkering. As far as I'm concerned its now damage limitation with our season, so what I'd like to see is our promising youngsters get a solid run in the team to at least give them good experience for next season and beyond. We have ageing players who under perform each week, and players on loan who are blocking the younger lads progression. At the end of the day it can't get any worse than this season has been so far and although they might occasionally struggle we at least know they want to play for the club and will give their all. If I had the power this is roughly what I'd go with now till the end of the season depending on injuries etc.....
Lomax
Swift
Turner
Percival
Makinson

Wheeler/Hohaia
Yates/Charnock

Puletua
Roby
Walmsley
Sia
Manu
Wilkin

Bench:
Hohaia (if Wheeler was fit)
Greenwood
Thompson
Jones/Walker

I would love to see what other people make of this team and how they think they would actually go!

We could put the academy out there and it will not change. There is a route and branch issue at the club with the playing staff. The players got Royce sacked. The players show lack of drive and professionalism. The players need a massive clear out. We could all name players who may do ok with better players around them.

Clough being one of them, however the poison looks to have spread and it needs cutting out.

I'd seriously only have a few untouchables.

Lomax
Turner
Roby
Walmsley
Sia
Manu


That's it for me. They are decent quality and they are professionals who show drive. The rest should be all up for chopping. I know this exposes peoples personal favourites, like Makinson, but it also includes my own like Walker and Percival.

To go certainly: Wellens, Meli, Ade, LMS, Laffranchi, Perry, TP, Howarth, Wilkin, Clough, Flanagan,
The rest should be open for discussion but even Percival, Walker, Makinson, Jones should all be considered as under threat.

Brown and the entire coaching staff should also be under consideration as they have performed worse than Rush. Whilst Rush may have had run in's with certain players and was not the most entertaining coach he can drill a side. If a part time stand in can do that, then Brown should be able to at least do that. But also KC has to be brought into this, we can't maintain this attitude of oh they were a great servant, is there a job for them on the coaching staff.

We need to be rebuilt. I'm happy to see if Brown can do this but his lack of awareness of what the fans and club are seeing on the field is scary.

From an outsider looking in it sounds to me as if McManus has had far too much influence on recruitment and retention over the last few years and now you're resorting to signing our cast-offs.