FORUMS > St. Helens > Finally something positive - Good article from Brown |
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2595.jpg I'm not Jesus Christ, I've come to accept that now.
[quote][b]XBrettKennyX wrote:[/b] Once more the anti SC brigade, purposely or otherwise fail to see the point.
Thick as pig swill.[/quote]:2595.jpg |
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| That looked to me like he wants Ashe to be 6 with Wilkin at 7.
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| I thought that when I read the article. It does sound like he's seen enough and wants to try a new 6, when Wilkin is back.
In the end he is going to combine as many halves as he can until he hits lucky.
It's only for one season, but he is probably thinking, we need a 7, but getting a 6 and 7 for next year is going to be pushing it.
Personally now Gaskells out of the picture, the best 6 I've seen this year at Saints has been Wheeler. But I would still like Yates to get a run out to see what he can offer.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "I thought that when I read the article. It does sound like he's seen enough and wants to try a new 6, when Wilkin is back.
In the end he is going to combine as many halves as he can until he hits lucky.
It's only for one season, but he is probably thinking, we need a 7, but getting a 6 and 7 for next year is going to be pushing it.
Personally now Gaskells out of the picture, the best 6 I've seen this year at Saints has been Wheeler. But I would still like Yates to get a run out to see what he can offer.'"
With Roby still being out trying out Ashe at 6 with Hohaia at 9 isnt that bad an idea.
Yates is a 7 isnt he ? I think it's obvious to most if Wheeler could get fit and then stay fit he would be given a shot
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| Quote: Roy Haggerty "I'd certainly want him back in there. I think Wilkin is a proper loose-forward with an ability to pass the ball as well as run it (he's quite fast for a forward) - similar in style to O'Loughlin. But he needs to be out wide running at gaps and with a centre outside him putting the defenders in two minds. However under the last couple of coaches, this sort of passing game has been discouraged in favour of percentage biff-bash play, and he's not really big enough to be an out-and-out second-rower, so it's hurt his effectiveness. He's also a tackling machine, and best used defensively as third man in to help out the three-quarters.
I think Wilkin would be my first choice of loose-forward every time. There isn't another back-row on the squad who has his skill with ball in hand plus his work-rate. Manu can use his hands, but can also be a complete liability who will lose us possession several times a game and won't make the tackles Wilkin does. The rest are just Clough look-a-likes
That's fair enough. I've argued many times that Wilkin's abilities have been marginalised by forcing him into a workhorse role, but for me, I don't think he's worth (to us) what I assume is a large salary.
Look at the forward pack and bench we've got going out against widnes. Its big. We know our senior props need a rocket up their , but the back row talent we have is impressive. Soliola (although injured) has been our player of the season, Manu is a real attacking force and has shown up well defensively and Flash (also injured) adds some real steel (and I reckon has more skills on the ball than we've fully seen). Whilst Wilkin's tackle count is always very high, he's not as physically dominating in the tackle as our other back rows and young Ant Walker has shown he can match Wilkin's tackle tally. Add to that we are normally seeing a prop start in one of the back rows slots and have two good youngsters in Greenwood and Thompson, then I can't really justify spending the wage an England International would demand on John Wilkin.
I'd get him shipped to salford (for whom he'd be a real boost) and free up valuable cap room for the areas we need improving.
I'm sure my following veiw will change if we lose again tonight, but I'm reasonably positive about the future at Saints. We have a young, exciting back line, we have the makings of a very good pack once we get it into shape and we have some very good developing players. I think the young lads will come through this a lot stronger - while we're losing, we're not hanging them out to dry (something a lot of people felt was going to happen if we continued with Lomax at #7 with Hohaia as his partner).
Hopefully we'll sign this luke walsh and he'll be a success, but I'd also be tempted to sign another half back (one that could preferably play 6 and 7 and even cover hooker in emergencies - Hanbury, Hanbury, Hanbury) and try and force Hohaia back to the NRL at the end of this year. Successful teams have to be ruthless, and I think the kiwi gnome needs the old arm round the shoulder talk about how its just not working out, but don't worry, rochdale's lovely this time of year.
I'll miss Meli when he goes, he does add a lot to our attack, but we just have take the oppotunity to find an ample replacement. It may be swift, although I'm temped to think he'sdestined for a position in field.
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| I agree with your sentiments on Jon Wilkin Offside Monkey.
He's had his testimonial and has served us well, but we need a much bigger pack and with him at #13 I cannot see us achieving that.
I applaud him for the job he's doing at #7 currently, but he's not what we need from next season - considering we will be bringing in a #7.
Imagine him at Salford, that would be quite a coup for them and whilst they're at it they can have Hohaia! Salford will be desperate for some big names and Willin and Hohaia will fit that bill. We may as well use the good Dr to our advantage!
I think once the likes of Perry, Hohaia, Wilkin and Laffranchi come off the cap we will have a better, more balanced squad. Last 3 seasons of recruitment has been poor and has not worked out, for one reason or another.
I also agree with what you say about missing Meli. I think we will, big time. If we cannot find another winger to bring in, I'd be happy to give Meli another year.
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| I think we need to face reality that we probably wont be able to see Hohaia off to Salford and we're probably stuck with him until his contract is up. While he is here I think he could be a decent addition to the team once everyone is fit. If he occupied a bench spot he could provide cover to the backs or interchange with Roby.
I'd like to see us part with Wilkin, he's not what we need in the forwards and isn't good enough in the backs.
As for Meli, i've been one of his biggest fans but it's time to move on and we should be putting a lot into bringing Broughton in.
Our potential team for next year looks promising though.
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| Quote: TheVee "I think we need to face reality that we probably wont be able to see Hohaia off to Salford and we're probably stuck with him until his contract is up. While he is here I think he could be a decent addition to the team once everyone is fit. If he occupied a bench spot he could provide cover to the backs or interchange with Roby.
I'd like to see us part with Wilkin, he's not what we need in the forwards and isn't good enough in the backs.
As for Meli, i've been one of his biggest fans but it's time to move on and we should be putting a lot into bringing Broughton in.
Our potential team for next year looks promising though.'"
Why is it unrealistic for us to offload Hohaia, yet you are quite happy with the idea of getting rid of Wilkin? Surely both are here until their contracts are up? I wasn't being 100% serious with those comments above; more a case of hope than reality.
I'm unsure on Broughton, seems ok but I haven't really seen him stand out. Bit of unwarranted hype around him I think.
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| Quote: BackrowSaint "Lance could be quite dangerous if told just to run and attack without worrying about creating and organising.
Wilkin, whilst he's never a scrum half, is the best option we have at 7 at the moment and will do a better job than anyone else directing us round the park.'"
I agree, leave the organising to Wilkin, and let Hohaia have more of a running game where he looks more dangerous. Not ideal, but the best we can come up with the current set of players, until Wheeler comes back, who I think could make a decent stand off if he can stay fit.
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| Quote: Albion "Why is it unrealistic for us to offload Hohaia, yet you are quite happy with the idea of getting rid of Wilkin? Surely both are here until their contracts are up? I wasn't being 100% serious with those comments above; more a case of hope than reality.
'" If we did want rid of Hohaia, wanted to sign Hanbury and had the cojones to flex a bit of muscle, we could negotiate/force a swap. Hanbury's OOC and (I reckon) will be on a couple of clubs radar (I can see both Wigan and Leeds looking at him), so might be hard to hold on to. He's currently playing fullback -hohaia's position of (everyone else's) choice.
Widnes may lose him a couple of months early, but gain an experienced and dangerous attacking fullback to cover them fot the next couple of years.
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| I think Salford will be in Hanbury too, maybe even Hull.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| I think the end of the day we have to create our own half backs. Too many clubs gone for the quick fix of "buying in" players each year descending in quality, to the point were we are now of probably only half a dozen high quality half backs in the entire superleague.
The clubs that adopt this half back development structure will most likely be the successful ones as importation from abroad completely dries up.
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| Quote: Judder Man "I think the end of the day we have to create our own half backs. Too many clubs gone for the quick fix of "buying in" players each year descending in quality, to the point were we are now of probably only half a dozen high quality half backs in the entire superleague.
The clubs that adopt this half back development structure will most likely be the successful ones as importation from abroad completely dries up.'"
See Mcguire and Sinfield, see Martyn/Pryce and Long for long term successful partnerships with british players. When you get it right, its the key, but we're so far from that we need to take remiedial action and sign up Walsh and AN Other imo - these can help us bring on our young lads like yates and swift, much like when Leeds signed Dunemann all them years back.
If we signed Hanbury as well as Walsh, he'd be a very good starting 6. He also has the versility to cover (very well) #1 and #7 and (i reckon) #9 too, allowing us to pick which youngsters to draft in without pressure.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "
If we signed Hanbury as well as Walsh, he'd be a very good starting 6. He also has the versility to cover (very well) #1 and #7 and (i reckon) #9 too, allowing us to pick which youngsters to draft in without pressure.'"
If we were capable of signing both it might be a quick fix short term but the same problem would come around in a few years time. We need to improve the development transition of the younger players to give the club 5 or 6 years of stability in the creative postions, the first clubs to have the courage to do that will probably be the successful clubs of the future.
If we mange to sign up Walsh, I think maybe the best option is to have Yates, Swift, Charnock etc playing along side him. I,ve negated Lance as Brown could see him more of a utility role as team options increase.
So its whats acceptable by the fans a quick fix with the chance of winning trophies or the creation of another dynasty which could last for a decade similar to Saints 1996-2006.
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3148_1430019579.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_3148.jpg |
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| Quote: Judder Man "I think the end of the day we have to create our own half backs. Too many clubs gone for the quick fix of "buying in" players each year descending in quality, to the point were we are now of probably only half a dozen high quality half backs in the entire superleague.
The clubs that adopt this half back development structure will most likely be the successful ones as importation from abroad completely dries up.'"
Trust me, there are high quality half backs (with real potential) at the club at u15/u16's scholarship age. Its about developing those lads to the highest possible standard so that come 19/20, they are ready for the first team.
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