I don't think there was any lack of desire, or heart, at all. We were beaten by the better side on the day, a team that has some top individual players, like ratboy and Charnley. Given our lack of a 1, 6, 7, 9 and 13, we did pretty well.

Our lack of a creative 1 6, 7, 9 cost us more than their lack of experience in the pack did them. They are too organised defensively for us to have had a hope in hell of beating them with Wilkin and Wellens at 6 and 7.

Sums it up really.

We seemed to win the forwards battle, but we lacked that spark to get us over the line. If we would have had Lomax I think it would have been a different game.

Their tries came from long range and I cannot really recall them having too much ball in our 20?

Overall, we have to be satisfied with that effort given the team we put out.

The second half wasn't too bad, but there is a risk that the second half improvement masks what was a shocking performance first half.

Don't think anyone is, but we was never going to come out blazing with the team we had out. Once we settled and got into it we played much better. Shame we were 18-0 by the time this happened though.

Exactly.

If we remember back to the injury crisis of 2011 we would often play poorly in the first half as a new line up was getting used to each other, and then we would come out and fight back in the second.

The team should take confidence in that performance. It's the most adventurous in attack I've seen Saints play in quite a while.

wi*an attacked the fringes of the ruck area with numbers, players on the shoulder of the player hitting up and the subsequent short passes created gaps. It was effective throughout the game, and exploited the cobbled-together nature of our team.

If someone had told me before hand that we would win the second half with the team we had out, I would have laughed in their face.

The difference in that first half was the clinicalness between the two sides, and I suppose you have to look at the half backs as to why that is the case. Everytime we had an attacking opportunity in Wigan territory, we put the ball down, or made made an error, where as when Wigan attacked, they scored. That's the deciding factor in big games IMO, and we simply didn't take our opportunities in that first half.

Second half we looked an awful lot better - we threw the ball about, and looked dangerous in attack. As with the first half though, we lacked the pace to threaten them. Paul Wellens is a St Helens legend, and sweats blood every time he pulls on a Saints shirt, but he isn't a #6, and that was evident today. The lads worked themselves into the ground in that second half, but mistakes and missed tackles cost us in the end. As I say, the absence of key players in those key positions ultimately was the deciding factor in the end, but you have to appreciate the guts and determination shown in that second half.

Great effort - but not quite enough.

St Helens did not play poorly in the first half. Wigan just played their best rugby in that half. At 18-0 up, a potential massacre was on the agenda. Wigan stopped playing and their standard dropped inviting Saints back into the game.

The St Helens team representing a great club today are a pale shadow of those of past years. A huge rebuilding task in front of Brown. Some halfbacks, removing the deadwod would be a start.

No Saints fan can be happy with the 2013 version of Saints.

or

Have standards and aspirations sunk so low?

This is the beginning and the end of the story today. Well done Billinge Lump for summing it up.

I made a joke in a thread earlier this week saying the bad news is Lomax is out and the worse news Wellens will be at 6.

That came to fruition today to our detriment. I don't blame that on Wellens at all, he's there to do a job and he gave 100%. Unfortunately it just wasn't for him.

Our lack of any creativity, at all, stifled us today. You need at least one strike player to stand any chance of breaking down Wigan's exceptionally organised defence. To have a good chance of scoring enough to win you need 2 or 3.

Were not that far off Wigan, so yes standards have dropped, throughout the competition.

to be honest with you i would agree

last season we finished top pretty comfortably, but imo only played well for a spell around June when we beat Leeds, Hudds, Cats and yourselves twice

the rest of the season we seemed to coast through

when it mattered we werent good enough beacuse week in week out, we werent challenged, and Leeds did for us in the CC Semi and GF playoff

IMO this is down to the format of SL playoffs, and not needing to compete fully throughout the season

yes we get some good games, but we also get a lot of poor / average games through the season as well

this season our recruitment in theory means we are a weaker team than last year on paper, and with the bulk of our 1st choice props and HH missing, we have still been very competitive. I may be disrespecting some of the good young players that are coming through, but i would expect us to have lost more than we have so far

also we need to consider the overseas recruitment, most clubs now appear to be going with home grown / home recruited players as we cant compete with the Ozzie dollar and salary cap over there, so to bring a marquee signing to these shores is now going to require something special

It's a long season. Today's Saints team was by no means the best we could offer, the only worry is that halfback wise we are now down past the bare bones. I do hope something is planned that we can't anticipate as Wheeler is out for an extended period and he's the only half we have left.

As I pointed out, the problem today was our lack of clinicalness in attack, and our inability to make simple tackles defensively. There was a 10-15 minute spell in the first half where we were missing tackles left right and centre, and the punished us because of it.

We had opportunities to post some points early on, didn't, and Wigan went down the other end and scored. That's the difference in big games, and we simply didn't have the pace or clinicalness to turn possession into points. We worked hard second half, but we left ourselves with a mountain to climb.