On its day our pack is good but I fancy wolves and Wigan to get the better of our pack if both play at full potential.

We are defo 100% a good prop short, possibly 2 short but it will more than hold its own most weeks.

The halves good be the problem again but Brown will give us better game plans and certainly more structure.

IMO for us to be a real force next year, we need top quality prop, halfback and centre.

Can't see you being a million miles away from a very good season tbh. You were very good against us (Leeds) last time and also for a game and a half against wire in the playoffs. Not sure of Brown's credentials when it comes to playoff rugby but I reckon you'll be good during the regular season and probably the CC and if he can get you to up it a notch in the playoffs, who knows?

Really? The Pies have lost Lima and Morley is nearly 40. Nothing to fear from either of their packs.

Remind me again of the age of the Saints pack!!!

I hope you didn't spend too much on me yesterday.

Gaz Hock totally destroyed us twice last year

I seem to remember the pies, leeds, warrington, cats and most suprisingly the hull packs getting the better of us last year.

OK, so you're not the brighest... No problem, we can work with that. Here's my original post again with the salient point subtly highlighted for your delectationDon't be daft. Our pack is fantastic - as good as any in the league in pure personnel terms easy. [i]It's not their fault they were made to play one-up plodding rugby [sizeby a series of clueless coaches[/size the last few years...[/i Not many packs will get the better of us next year. All our potential problems are in the backs where we're relying on a lot of young players coming good all at once and could struggle badly if they don't - in the pack though we're sorted.[/i]"

Is that better now or would you like me to provide you with diagrams?

Or maybe it's just that the Saints pack that you think is fantastic just isn't as good as you believe.

I do agree with the young player part though, it was something I warned about after witnessing it with Wigan around 2003/2004 / 2005.

Interesting you bring up the young player aspect as i think Wigans big weakness in this coming year will be a lack of experienced players.Only Hock O'loughlin and Richards have significant experience.
I'm surprised you havent brought that up in relation to Wigans team next season. Especially considering you will be going into the campaign with an untried half back pairing which may take some time to gell.
During the transitional period Saints have ensured they have maintained a significant level of experience, and this has helped us stay as an elite club. Wigan appear to be making the same mistakes as happened at the turn of the century, with regard to squad composition.

With regard to Saints pack it statistically outplayed over the season, every other pack.
Saints problem was not in making yards it was in doing something once we had made the yards.
Due to inexperienced coaches they went with a basic game plan which was still good enough to hand last years trophy winning teams Warrington and Leeds defeats, but ultimately wasnt enough in the really big games.
Saints weakness is a lack of pace and quality in the threequarters which means we are limited to scoring close range trys vombined with a misfiring half back pairing, which i think was more down to coaching than the respective players abilities. A lot in the 2013 season will depend on how our halves work under the brown coaching setup and if Jordan Turner can give us more strike power out wide than the rather powder puff Shenton, who was a flop at Saints.

Excellent post Chair.

Spot on.

Bang on - I maintain that in pure personnel terms we have the best pack in the league but that their effectiveness was sorely limited by our predictability due to the dire back situation we had last season. If we can get any productivity from the halves at all next year (and there's no reason to believe that we won't) then I reckon our pack will take some stopping.

I agree with Northampton Saint.

But will we improve in the halves this year? if not the same problems will occur again

I think the playmakers will be more effective this year. I have a feeling Gaskell and Lomax will be the half backs with either Wilkin or Hohaia acting as a 3rd when needed the same as most other teams use there full backs.