I dont understand this constant criticism of Wellens and the thought that pretty much any player with a bit of speed can play better at fullback.
There was never any of this criticism 5 years ago even though his game hasnt changed that much over that time.So what has changed in that time since there were always fullbacks who were better attacking than defending?
There is one thing to my mind that has set peoples expectations to be higher than they previously were and that is the ability of Tomkins. The way that he plays at fullback isnt a new thing - but it is by a British player - the bar was set by Slater but before him there were any number of other fullbacks who were doing the same thing - they just werent as good at it - Webb, Hodgson, Greenshields are examples of these.
You can go even further back and look at the two different styles of fullback play players such as Dave Lyon, Alan Tait all played a far more attacking style - but it was always at the expense of their other fullback skills, tackling, positional sense, Radlinski took it a step further by also having an all round game, we even tried Alan Hunte at fullback who looked really good for about 2 games till other teams realised he wasnt a natural fullback.

The point I am trying to make is that not only do you need a player who is fast, evasive with handling skills of a halfback to emulate the way Tomkins and Slater play - but you also need good halfbacks to create that space for them to exploite who also in turn need a dominant pack. It was evident in the most recent defeats for Wigan that without the last 2 the first doesnt show up. It simply will not work just changing the fullback.

The simple fact of the matter is that from the team we have right now we can either

Play Wellens as the best fullback we have at the club

Play Lomax there but we are then left with no halfback with the skill to produce space - we would also weaken our structure as he would need to learn the role

Put Makinson/Swift/any other outside back there who dont have the handling skills and would take a couple of years to fully understand the full backs role (Tomkins made the transition from halfback to fullback with the 1:1 coaching of Radlinski - that sped up the process) and may never be as good as Wellens is right now.

Bring in someone from outside who already has the required attributes the cost and just who would that be seem to be limiting factors to this.

There are anumber of clubs who have changed their option at fullback this year - most of who are not getting the results they would like - Hull, Huddersfield, Cas, Widnes, Bradford. And others who are getting some success - Leeds.

A blinkered view of a particular individual doesnt resolve the problems we may have.

Can you lot tell me what Wellens does exactly? Is it just the fact that he doesn't drop bombs very often that makes you think he'd be better at fullback than Hohaia (A world cup winning fullback), Makinson, Swift or even Gaskell or Lomax? Is it just the absence of errors that makes you feel comfortable with him there?

The problem at the club is that we can,t speed up the development process of our young promising players quick enough especially in the important pivotal positions. Wello is still our best all round full back and offers experience, direction, he reads the game well for the next defensive/offence plays.
We could throw Swift or Makinson in at full back but that would mean of the main pivotable positions 1,6,7,9,13 we only have Roby with the necessary skillset to consistently trouble the opposition.
Historically when our full back loses pace they usually spend the latter years in the pack, times have changed I suppose.

Apparently, eh? So, in other words, you made it up.

rlErm, no.rl

Wellens does everything that you would expect of a fullback with 10 years experience.
His positional sense is probably his best attribute, this makes his lack of blistering pace less of a problem than it would be.
His one on one tackling is as good as anyones in an exposed position and better than most.
His ability to join the line at just the right time is evident by the number of trys and assists he has this season
His experience to guide his team round the park
His kick returns are generally sound and make ground, his evasive qualities keep him away from the opposition more times than he gets tackled easily - this gives the team time to regroup.
He also is very sound under the kick - dont be-little that skill as players have been crucified in this team for not being.

What I can tell you is that Makinson, Swift or even Gaskell or Lomax have none of those attributes - could some learn them? probably, would that happen by placing them in the first team at fullback? it would be far more likely that the number of errors they would make at that level would criple them confidence wise - so the way they would learn is A team rugby, the coaching staff do seem to be trying different options at fullback in the A team - it doesnt look like they have found anyone ready to slot into that position yet.
Your thoughts of putting anyone there ahead of Wellens is based on a guess that it might work. Thank God that the coaching staff have a better process to find out if they can play there first. But the obvious point is that people playing regular first team will not get this chance unless you decide to leave them out of first team rugby to learn a different position - and thats not a luxury we can afford at the moment.
As for Hohaia - I assume you did see his performance in the full back role at the beggining of the season - what did you see there that could possibly make him the man for the job?

Not entirely. I have watched Wello in the latter part of this season and he does the same thing pretty much every gameWhat I can tell you is that Makinson, Swift or even Gaskell or Lomax have none of those attributes - could some learn them? '"

I think Wello has had a mixed season. That positional sense that he is well known for did seam to have slipped in some games. There were years ( or so it seamed) when a kick in the air never hit the ground at Saints. Hence Wellens Bomb disposal flag.

This year there have been a few occasions where it has been more noticable that balls kicked up for the FB have been left to bounce rather than been taken on the full. Also there have been occasions where breaks have gone through the Saints line and the player going through has just ghosted past Wellens, the worst being Hock. A FB does not have to be fast to get in the face of a player coming forwards, if Hock could burn Wellens off on the angle, then it did get me worrying.

A season is a long time in RL though and Wellens has been having some decent games too. As I said I thought he did alot right yesterday and saying he just runs down the left does not justify the input into the game yesterday. He was MOM for me yesterday.

But the big thing for me is the future, when Wellens came in it was to replace patch who also was becoming pedestrain in defence on high kicks and chasing down a man going through a broken line. We blooded Wellens and the FB slot at Saints was solid for a decade.

At the moment we seam to be denying possible replacements the same oppertunity we gave wellens and so we could be letting future FB's pass us by and the chance to develop their skills in that role too. I would not say every game but some games I would have liked to see possible future FB's given the oppertunity to develop that role. Who better to learn the game from than one of the best FB's in SL.

My fear is we play Wellens until it's way beyond him then throw in candidate after candidate with no Wellens to Fallback on or learn from. The difficulty is if Wellens does not play FB, to give another guy a chance to get that first grade experience, then where do we play him??

2nd Row/LF?
Centre?
Bench?

I don't think he is a one trick pony and he could play another role. My hope is that Brown likes to be a tinker man and he will move Wellens about a bit to see where else he may contribute and who else maybe the long term replacement at FB.

I can understand Rush and Cunningham not doing this as they have nothing to gain with experimenting with a side that is not theirs to mess with.

That's a good point. Wello isn't getting the criticism from other people he was a couple of years ago when he dropping every bomb that went his way, simply because he's now not even reaching them. It's the same with tries, in the good old days at KR, he have made try saving tackles almost every game and certainly every big game. Now a Wellens tackle is a rare occurance, again because he doesn't get there anymore.

I would LOVE someone to do an analysis of the tries we've conceded this season and where Wello was when it happened. He almost always arrives at the scene as the try scorer is getting up, and takes it out on the referee. The mindless Saints fans then don't see him miss a tackle, so don't put a black mark in his book.

For people who reckon Wellens is NOT an attacking full back:

Wellens this season:
Is the clubs highest try scorer
Is the clubs highest for tackle busts.
Is in second place to Meli for clean breaks.

And for consistency he has scored 210 career tries as well.

Yes, by comparison on attributes he is the 4th best full back in super league behind Tomkins - Hardaker - Eden, very close to 3rd place Eden.

Failed attempts you could say that for quite a few players, but as rightly pointed out by other posters he has taken on extra responsibility due to our half backs deficiency. I think people are clutching at straws to try and justify his de selection when in reality at the moment he is still the best option at full back, sooner or later if it be Makinson or Swift for No 1, it will be done at risk which we can ill afford until the cavalry arrives.

There was a 2nd part to that post of mine.

That would be Eden who is in his debut year? Hardaker too (at fullback anyway). 3.9189453125:5