Fans:
They do my head in a lot of the time too.
Its embarassing but every RL team has a couple of thousand morons supporting them. Apart from London who only have about 500 fans all together.

I can't imagine what it must be like at a football match.

You can ball and shout as much as you want saying the players need to do better if there not good enough there not good enough and it will get worse even when brown comes in

That début season had such low expectations put on it that average performances seemed good.



Any replacement coming in and doing an average job under those circumstances would look good. Also I think you place too much emphasis on his contribution to the point where you devalue the other players who took part in those games.The whole season was a backs to the wall grind of a season where the remaining fit senior players had to dig deep and bring the younger players through.

Gaskells true level was shown at the start of this season. As soon as fans expected performances he couldn't deliver.If he were the half back you all say he is we wouldn't have had such a bad start given that the first 6 games looked straightforward on paper. Also our revival began with his omission and the only team to beat us in that time is the Pies. Now I would not defend Hohaia for 1 second but Lomax started playing better when he was moved to half back.

Lee Gaskell may one day make a decent super league player but it won't be at Stand-Off.

It depends how you define "a good run". We were winning games but I think it was plainly obvious to the majority of Saints fans that if we came up against a quality side, like we did at the weekend then we would struggle. Yes we beat Leeds on the Monday, but I was one of the few that came away from the game pleased with the win but also dreading playing Wigan. We just can't reach that level at the moment.

You're correct tinkering with the squad is what is needed. It's not like we have a squad of 40 players and can change the whole team so we are limited with the changes we can make. Personally I'd only change 3 - 4 players to see what happens - it can't be any worse than the weekend. I'll do a side that I would like to see play Hull.

1. Wellens -
2. Gardner -
3. Wheeler - been in poor form since he came back from injury but it's either him or Shenton.
4. Jones - He has been "having a breather" in the U20's the last few weeks and hasn't been dropped. Time for him to come back into the side.
5. Makinson - if fit
6. Lomax
7. Gaskell - If only for his kicking in general play as without him our kicking game is shocking
8. Perry
9. Roby
10. Laffranchi
11. Soliola
12. Flanagan - if fit
13. Wilkin

14. Dixon
15 LMS
16. Clough
17. Puletua

People are obviously going to have different opinions but I think that side should be good enough to get the 2 points against Hull. It looks more balanced and moves the players who are in poor form away from the side. But like I said it's all completely objective.

In regards to the roles played by Cunningham and Mike Rush over the last couple of months. I think that they have both been forced into the roles they currently have at the club, not by management but by beliving that it was the best thing for the club at the time. They obviously love the club and have taken it on themselves to make the best out of a messy situation. With Royce going so early in the season they had no time to prepare themselves for the challenges that lay ahead, so they are basically having to learn on the spot and I think in the circumstances they have done really well. I compare their situation to that of Roy Hodgson the England football manager in Euro 2012. It's a free tournament for him as it's a free season for KC and Mike Rush - they aren't expected to create miracles they are being asked to steady the ship temporarily before future plans become reality. Us fans know this or at least I hope they do.

Can't think of one then?

My point is that I don't think he had a great debut season and the fact he looked ok was because of the low expectations at the club at the time. A lot of other players contributed to last seasons exceptional end result, yet you seem to believe that Gaskell was really the only player who contributed. That is a massive disservice to all the other juniors who played last season. Bottom line is that Gaskell will never make a stand-off with enough quality to be at Saints for years. He is a modern day Mark Bailey, OK untill someone better comes along.

P.S. I think Jamie Foster and Jonny Lomax both had better debut seasons than Gaskell. If you want me to go back further I will have to put my thinking cap on because my memory ain't what it was. Cue the jokes.

I can see the logic here as there are wholesale changes that could be made, but making changes across the board could lead to some tragic reults against lesser sides than wigan. This keeps our core stable whilst offering some key attacking changes. other would go further and move lomax, wellens, meli, wilkin but that would cause so much disruption that it would be impossible to see improvements in any one area.

That's why i've not minded too much wheeler and lance getting an extended run, you can't see true form from a few minutes of a match, but a run of 10 matches will give you a better idea of what a player brings to a team across easy games, hard games as a team member and with individual actions.

I have already said in this thread that this may be worth a try. Gaskell may better at scrum half and Lomax at Stand-off. Many on here will say Lomax isn't a Stand-off but that has been his position since Under 7's. Not all Stand-offs are ball playing, creative wizards. Leon Pryce wasn't the best creative Stand-off but he ran devastating lines and could make breaks through the middle. Lomax has the same ability to run at defences and make breaks. Gaskells kicking (His one top drawer attribute) would be better used from first receiver before the defence is fully set, and could be devastating for Lomax to run on to.

This is the best thread of the season so far even thought I don't quite agree with everything. Great thread Man of Steel.

I bet Rommel will disagree with you.

Where have I said, or even suggested, that?

Thanks pal. It does seem to have got everyone thinking hasn't it? It's great everyone has sensible opinions and all are valid, as often than not (after me reading these forums for years but never posting) someone derails a thread by silly arguments.