What, you don't know? Gids, Cunningham, Maurie, Bryn, Emmitt and maybe some more because Flannery, Meli and Wello were also up for contract renewals but we haven't heard whether new contracts have been offered (in Meli's case, hopefully not! And probably Flannery too for that matter).

We are losing five players who have played in the first team, at least one of whom has been very influential. But we are bringing in three. Granted, Emmitt probably wouldn't have played had we had Maurie, but now we have neither with just one prop coming in. The numbers don't add up. If the rumours are true about Gardner and Pryce too, we're in a fix next season.

good point.

A Challenge Cup eases the pain though.

That's good. You need a clear out and a few years of not making the grand final so you can get rid of the mental baggage.

I know KC, gidley, maurie, bryn and emmitt but i was under the impression you knew for sure from the context of your post.

We will miss KC but lets be honest he don't play much game time these days and we've got roby and moore witing the wings. What a great player he's been!

Gidley has been on his last legs this year and shenton will improve us in the centre.

Maurie ain't played much over the last two seasons and has been hit and miss in the times he has played.

Bryn is solid enough but LMS is better and will improve us there and with aussie prop josh perry coming in will improve us a great deal.

Emmitt has really come on leaps and bounds over the last 3 month and i think it's a mistake not keeping him.

So on a whole i think we will improve next year.

Is that a joke ?

We need a few years of not making the grand final

So we should play for not making the grand final ?

With type of thinking we might as well wrap up now.

for me wigan and saints are the teams who have improved for next season, wigan signing the 3 storm lads and saints signing perry,shenton and lms. Warrington and leeds will be battling for 4th next year along with huddersfield. In fact I wouldnt be suprised if the top 5 finished something like 1. wigan 2. saints 3. huddersfield 4. warrington 5. leeds

I agree with all that. I can see hudds taking over from leeds.

I have been watching Wigan/Saints games for 50 years. I am still waiting for Saints to decline......................Let's face it. It's not going to happen.

After our 4 grand finals defeats we have been in decline

I think with the three players we are bringing in will make us alot stronger next year.

You miss my point entirely! Sorry but as we found in the mid 90's nothing lasts forever. There are at least 12 other clubs in Superleague who would swap places with you. And to get to a grand final without key players like Pryce and Eastmond is a major achievement and if you had them on the field last night would you have been discussing a decline today? Yes, over a very short period you have declined and I love you for it! But just be patient - your new coach will take you to a different level. You have the youngsters, some great players joining next season and a new stadium to look forward to. Just be grateful that you don't support one or two other teams that I could mention in Superleague! You won't win all the games and you won't win all the trophies. Be grateful for what you have achieved and look forward to the future and some more thrilling Wire, Wigan, Rhinos and now Giants encounters!

The word decline is wrong, it's rebuilding.

In rebuilding we have stayed at the top level so far, wigan went in to a 12 year decline when they rebuilt.

The rebuilding at saints is far from over but i think with three good players coming in, we are now seeing the light after only two years of our rebuild.