It's not all his fault to be fair. McManus has to take it on the chin that despite his achievements at the club, squad development is not one of them.

Being out of the running as we enter the plays isn't that bad when you look at it objectively. All but 1 of the teams is in a worse position (2 if you include Wire who are still in London celebrating).

It was always going to be a decline after the legends of the club departed or got old, it's just shocking that it's happened so quickly.

As I've said for weeks top 4 next season would be a great achievement with the squad we've got.

Think you saints might be over-reacting, you did,nt have much to play for, salford were never gonna beat the wino,s and it meant a lot more to the frogs legs. A wounded saints is a dangerous beast. We,ve done you twice, three times...mmmm dont know about that. Yes i think i might prefer the wino,s. Shocking if they did walk without clapping the fans though.

Yes, and we slaughtered them 54-4 or some such in the CC round at KR.

But that doesn't explain this season, and certainly not the last three matches when we have had everyone back from injury (and definitely not tonight's incredibly awful performance). We've only had Talau missing this year.

When will people make the connection between 'boring' football and the weakest set of backs - with the exception of Gidley - in ten (or more) years?

With respect to gameplan, Potter can only play with the cards he's been dealt. Is there anyone in here who seriously thinks that if he had Newlove, Iro, Sullivan & Hoppe in the backs he'd instruct the half backs to keep the ball within fifteen yards either side of centre?

To sum saints up for 2009.

Can't pass, can't catch, no attack, no kicking game, ok in defence, no pace and can't kick goals.

We got to many 2nd rate players.

2010 is going to be a hell of a lot worse.

And that got you a lot didn't it?
A bit like 75 - 0.

Be sensible, Rogues. I was responding to your post which stated the obvious about the Catalans pack. However, we dealt with them swiftly the last time we met. Now we can't even find our way home, much less beat them. If you'd seen our performance tonight, you'd be laughing your head off! (Some of us were too as we had gotten into hysteria mode)

Yet 2nd in the league and Challenge Cup semi-final...If were really as bad as a lot of people think, god help everyone else in the league.

Have to slightly disagree with this. Last season the only different card Anderson had in the backs was Talau. Not the fastest centre you will see, so we're not really any slower in that respect and imho Wheeler has probably been our stand out back (Gidley apart) this season.

If you look, the last ten games of the season provided 4 wins (one of which was the struggle against Huddersfield reserves). The other three were against Warrington, Quins and Wigan - none of which have exactly set Super League alight this season.

Whilst I'm not shouting for Harry's head, it seems that we have a false position in the table when compared to the tactics he uses. How much of this position is down to the team continuing to play Anderson's way for the first part of the season until Harry's tactics took over I don't know.

It also concerned me in one of the League magazines recently, they did a piece on the youngsters coming through at Saints and Leeds, and Sir Eamon was quoted as saying that one of the main reasons he brought Harry to Saints was due to the fact that he was the youth coach for NSW and knew how to bring on the young players. Nothing wrong with that, but surely the success of the team and how Harry could continue that must have also played a part in the interview process? Maybe Harry bored Eamon to sleep during the interview!!

We pride ourselves for being known as the Entertainers, but alas, for as long as Harry is in charge, we cannot use that mantle and have become a "boring 5 hits up the middle followed by a crap kick" team, and will continue to do so as that is the way Harry has played it at all of his clubs.

We've obviously played better than everybody else, apart from Leeds, this season to finish 2nd.

We might have won more than most teams but it don't mean we've played better than the other 12.