Sorry, I'm "siding" with Ron against Mr Side.
Tomkins would never have scored that try against the aussies.

You have to laugh. The clearer it becomes that Tomkins is the best player in SL, the only criticism left is that he MIGHT not have scored a certain try IF he'd been playing against the Aussies. How many times do you stop and think after one of your own players has scored a try "Hmm, well I suppose he wouldn't have scored that against the Aussies." How many times have great tries been scored in SL by players other than Tomkins and been met with criticism rather than praise on the basis that they might not have scored the same try against the Aussies? It's bonkers! It really is clutching at straws for want of criticism. I mean think about it, it amounts to "Tomkins is only good because he's playing against us, and we're shίt!"

You are missing the point(s). This is not having a go at Tompkins.
1. Tomkins is a great player most saints fans would be delighted if him or his equivalent (if there was one but I can't think of one in this country who is better than him).
2. The try he scored against us was a very poor try to concede. We had ample opportunity to stop him but LMS, Moore and Wello failed miserably. It took some scoring but he should have been stopped as he signalled exactly what he was going to try to do.
3. Ron's and my view's are that the aussie national team would not defend like that and concede such a relatively "soft" try.

I don't see anything wrong with the opinion that tomkins is a fantastic player but he should have been stopped. I think the difference is that you see it as a great try whilst I saw it as a try that we should never have conceded.

Unlike the the try at the end of the first half which was a superb try by anyone's definition and although I know how frail/lazy Meli can be in defence, I think most players would have had a difficult time countering that step at that pace. Superb try.

Agreed 100%

Ok fair enough, it just seems to be trotted out after every single Tomkins try lately, constantly banging on about "the Aussies" because that's the only "criticism" left.

No thats fine, now then; fancy swapping him for wello?

I'm not qiute sure how this thread turned into a Tomkins debate but i'll join in anyway.

I doubt he would of scored that try against Australia because they wouldn't have given him the opportunity. He took advantage of a gap he spotted. There is no doubting his ability but when (assuming he is fit) plays in the 4 nations i don't think he'll cause too many problems for Australia. This is not because i don't think he is not good enough but because i don't think England are good enough. As a team we don't run the lines and offer the space for any of our attacking players to take advantage.

Until the standard of coaching throughout SL improves i don't think England will, whoever the coach is.

GB/England for years have looked clueless as an attacking unit, particularly out wide. You literally could put Bill Slater at his peak in at full back for us and he wouldn't do much and people would wonder what all the fuss was about. Until we get halfbacks who can set up plays and provide structure (hopefully Widdopp will help here), and some athleticism and attacking threat in the threequarters (signs of a couple of potential players here), Tomkins would look as stranded as everyone else has.

We also need our forwards to do far better work off the ball as well.

Better stop there, the whole topic is thoroughly depressing....

So everyone agrees with me, good stuff.