Its baffling for me as well that Sean Long has not taken over our attacking structure, look what he did with Salford over his short period there. KC should be looking at our defence which is one big massive turnstile at the moment. For around 3 or 4 games now his post match comments have concerned the team playing dumb, so maybe its not all down to the game plan but very bad half back executions.

I can,t see how our game is going to improve with a one out pass flat attack, the opposition are just getting an easy ride on there defensive set, again the half backs and hooker have got to get players running in from deep with a bit of pace and momentum. Greenwood and LMS are looking far less effective these last couple of games, there is only Vea who can operate in this restrictive way.

With our half backs so much out of form and having no replacements, KC has got his hands tied and we are stuck until Wikin comes back in the side.

Sean Long being appointed defensive coach pretty much sums up KC's reign so far; baflling and wrong.

I have agreed with every comment on this thread. It's not often that you find a general consensus on these pages so that, for me anyway, says a hell of a lot.

If we can all see it then surely the coaches can see it? What worries me is that Cunningham took charge after Royce was sacked and we played the same tripe we are serving up now. I can't see anything changing over the next couple of weeks and we are facing the prospect of not winning a game in the super 8s if this carries on. Some tough fixtures to follow.

I don't understand what Saints fans have against a drop off. It's like saying we have an obsession with the second man play, or an obsession with the face ball. It's one of the main moves in rugby league, of course we use it often.

A drop off on 4th 20 metres out means you get a PTB that isn't horrendously slow (providing Richards does his job well). It also gives you split halves from the middle of the pitch, meaning two kicking options and less kick pressure. 8 behind and you either need a kick for a repeat set or a kick you can compete for, both of which you aren't likely to achieve if Burns is kicking across his body from the right hand corner with the defence flying up because we shifted it out to the right wing when it wasn't on.

Can't comment on either of the last two games. But purely in terms of the scores neither are good.

All coaches face such crises in their careers. I guess how Cunningham responds to this one really will have a large say in his career at the club.

That said, neither result really changes a great deal. We're still in a good position and with some good players to return.

The big issue for me is Walsh. I said three weeks ago that unless his teammates see some kind of improvement in his game they will feel less and less happy about carrying him. Sooner or later team morale will sink and from therein it's only a short step toward complete and utter implosion.

I can't tell if you actually mean this or if you're taking the mick.

You honestly think that a drop off to a prop on the 4th tackle when chasing the game was the RIGHT thing to do?? Wow. We should be aiming to score tries in that situation, not preparing ourselves in advance for a better opportunity at a repeat set!! The lack of ambition, creativity and urgency in what you're saying is absolutely shocking.

I haven't seen the game - but Saint #1 is right. Whether either you or I like Saints' current brand of football is irrelevant here - given our tactical style (one which doesn't involve a great deal of width) setting up for territory and pressuring for the mistake in their half is a FAR BETTER option than suddenly trying to play a brand of football we haven't all season, coughing up the ball close to our line because of it and losing the game entirely.

Sean Long (who did have excellent backs to work with and greater width, tactically) won many a big game from behind by not trying to force the pass with a handful of minutes to go - punting instead for territory. Far too many sides panic when there really is no need to. In ten minutes you can score four tries - so being down by eight is no reason to suddenly start throwing what in the NFL are referred to as "Hail Mary" passes.

Trust me if you'd have seen the game you'd know exactly where I, and everyone else bar you and Saint#1, are saying.

They were down to 12, we had perfect field possession, we needed points and were chasing the game and we simply chose to see out our set. It was awful.

20 off the line to get us back to the middle, after a spread play the play before? Yes. In terms of our chances of winning the match, being ready for a good attacking kick to try and score a try or force a repeat set does a lot more than aimlessly chucking the ball from one touchline to the other despite a spread play the play before. Even with 8 minutes to go, some times you just need to set up for the next play.

There's a time and a place for being patient, I agree with that bit.

But when you've tried and failed with those tactics already for 72 minutes and you have a numerical advantage, not chancing our arm and playing more expansively was an error; an error which ultimately cost us the game.

Aimlessly? Throwing the ball out wide, creating overlaps, missing players out, offloads etc this is what it means to play for a team like Saints, who were long famous for scoring last minute tries (Never write off the Saints etc) before the successes of post 96 never mind before it.

I'm sorry, I know for many other clubs, that strategy against 12 men is totally acceptable, but if that's what we've settled for as Saints fans then we've lost the very thing that set us apart from other teams...I don't mean winning trophies, i mean playing the game like the Brazilians play football.

I'm not losing hope yet...players like Lomax (when he comes back), Makinson, Swift, Percival, Richards, Thompson, Charnock, Roby, Greenwood, Savelio and co all know what it means to play for Saints.

I'm not given to over reaction, so I've given it the weekend . It's the tactics , simple. Apart from Vea (plenty of 2nd row cover), Lomax (Quinlan cover) and Tommy Mak -( really missing this lads finishing) we had a full squad avaliable and it was shocking.
It's all good KC coming out ever week saying the players arnt performing, but it's his bloody job to make them! Why arnt they?
KC starting to look horribly out of his depth and if things don't improve a Saints legend will destroy his own reputation