FORUMS > St. Helens > Reality check |
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| Quote: LFC Saint "The reason why it'd be different is because the likes of Bateman, Tomkins, Clubb and Farrell would of made sure the Rabbitohs knew they was in for a tough game.
I love our club but i feel embarrassed after tonight and feel we have let Super League down massively. Wigan and Wire fans have the right to laugh at us after tonight.'"
It wouldn't.
Brisbane are nearly as far behind Souths as we are. Saints forwards got man handled and ours are smaller.
Over reactions aren't needed by Saints fans tonight. It's tough to take but the issue doesn't sit at Saints door, it sits at the door of the RFL. Our league had been allowed to fall further behind then it's ever been.
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Black Backgrounds/Miss%20Piggy.gif LIVING THE DREAM ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPER LEAGUE PLAY-OFFS!
''All our dreams can come true if we have the courage to pursue them'':Black Backgrounds/Miss%20Piggy.gif |
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| Quote: LFC Saint "I'm not buying into the fact the Rabbitohs are un touchable. Im telling you now had that been Wigan tonight playing instead of Saints the scoreline would be extremely different.'"
Yeah it would have finished Wigan 0 v 60 Souths
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27476.gif I am the hash browns of rlfans :27476.gif |
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| Quote: NickyKiss "It wouldn't.
Brisbane are nearly as far behind Souths as we are. Saints forwards got man handled and ours are smaller.
Over reactions aren't needed by Saints fans tonight. It's tough to take but the issue doesn't sit at Saints door, it sits at the door of the RFL. Our league had been allowed to fall further behind then it's ever been.'"
Hopefully this will be a wake up call for some at the rfl to bring in some new rules/ up the cap more generally as well.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "It wouldn't.
Brisbane are nearly as far behind Souths as we are. Saints forwards got man handled and ours are smaller.
Over reactions aren't needed by Saints fans tonight. It's tough to take but the issue doesn't sit at Saints door, it sits at the door of the RFL. Our league had been allowed to fall further behind then it's ever been.'"
Fair point mate. Good post.
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| Quote: NickyKiss "It wouldn't.
Brisbane are nearly as far behind Souths as we are. Saints forwards got man handled and ours are smaller.
Over reactions aren't needed by Saints fans tonight. It's tough to take but the issue doesn't sit at Saints door, it sits at the door of the RFL. Our league had been allowed to fall further behind then it's ever been.'"
Very decent posts from you tonight Nicky. Out of interest, what would you do to close the gap and improve Super League? Is it just a simple case of increasing the salary cap? If so, is there not a risk we'd lose several clubs as the crowds and sponsorship just isn't sufficient to make them sustainable.
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "
I don't think the RFL can win in this situation. The only way to stop promising British players from leaving SL and heading to the NRL is by raising the cap to similar levels to which the NRL operates at. Even then, players will still leave because of the attraction of the climate and surroundings.
Clubs like Saints will always have a decent production line of academy prospects, but other clubs are not in the same position and they would undoubtedly use the extra cap space to bring ageing australian players over to SL and consequently prevent British players from getting a spot in the side.
This is before we even consider the clubs who simply cannot afford to spend to a higher cap. Combining a higher cap with the threat of relegation is simply a disaster waiting to happen.
The Aussies are just fitter athletes, it's their national sport over there (in some states), they have a much bigger player pool to produce talent from, and the sport is booming over there.
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27476.gif I am the hash browns of rlfans :27476.gif |
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| Quote: Nothus "I don't think the RFL can win in this situation. The only way to stop promising British players from leaving SL and heading to the NRL is by raising the cap to similar levels to which the NRL operates at. Even then, players will still leave because of the attraction of the climate and surroundings.
Clubs like Saints will always have a decent production line of academy prospects, but other clubs are not in the same position and they would undoubtedly use the extra cap space to bring ageing australian players over to SL and consequently prevent British players from getting a spot in the side.
This is before we even consider the clubs who simply cannot afford to spend to a higher cap. Combining a higher cap with the threat of relegation is simply a disaster waiting to happen.
'"
this rule is currently in place in the championship
The intention behind this allowance is to reward Clubs for developing (and investing in the development of) Players.
Any Club Trained Player shall be deemed to have a maximum Salary Cap Value of £40,000. Any amount paid to the Player in excess of £40,000 shall be disregarded in calculating his Salary Cap Value.
A ‘Club Trained Player’ is a player who was on the Club’s register for any 3 full Seasons before the end of the Season in which he ceases to be eligible by age to play at Under 21 level.
'"
This is the rule that can (and should of been by now) brought in that can at least start e tide. Tomkins and Graham are lost to us imo, what we need is to start the process to protect the next in the production line. That combined with slow, regular and planned cap increases will start to turn the tide, limits the risk to smaller clubs, and rewards clubs for producing talent as opposed to buying in.
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "this rule is currently in place in the championship
Isn't that rule already in place for SL? I thought it was £100k for club trained in SL?
If not, then I agree it should certainly be brought in.
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| It was lesson in Rugby League. Souths were untouchable.
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27476.gif I am the hash browns of rlfans :27476.gif |
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| Quote: Nothus "Isn't that rule already in place for SL? I thought it was £100k for club trained in SL?
If not, then I agree it should certainly be brought in.'"
Nope. It was supposed to be, but clubs refused to vote it in for this year. I'm hoping to God the rfl don't let them dig their feet in too long and it's due to come in next year...
100k is also too high - should be 100k normally, 75k upon an England knight appearance and 60k after a full England cap.
That and a cap increase to £2m in 2016, and an agreement to increase it by ~100k per year for every year after that for 5 years is step 2
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| Stuff the Aussies and stuff their salary caps.
We beat Wigan in a Grand Final last year with a young side and then the aussie champs came over to play us in our new stadium, we sold out and we made some money out of it.
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| Come on, let's not get too down hearted. On the showing of Wigan and Warrington, there is not this gulf people are talking about between the SL and the NRL. Brisbane and St George will both fly back knowing they've been in a game as intense as their own league.
We know what rugby league is like sometimes. If one team doesn't do the basics right, and the other team gets it all right, then they will potentially pummel them.
Last season, Catalans tore us a new backside at their place. They turned up and we didn't. That 42-0 score line wasn't a reflection of the gulf between the two teams in general.
These things happen, it's not nice to be on the receiving end. It's just what happened on the night unfortunately. I guarantee South Sydney will have a few big defeats put on them this season because it's impossible to get it right in every game The lads will learn an awful lot from it.
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40218_1286737075.jpg Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. (Winston Churchill):d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_40218.jpg |
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| Quote: Twentyman "Come on, let's not get too down hearted. On the showing of Wigan and Warrington, there is not this gulf people are talking about between the SL and the NRL. Brisbane and St George will both fly back knowing they've been in a game as intense as their own league.
We know what rugby league is like sometimes. If one team doesn't do the basics right, and the other team gets it all right, then they will potentially pummel them.
Last season, Catalans tore us a new backside at their place. They turned up and we didn't. That 42-0 score line wasn't a reflection of the gulf between the two teams in general.
These things happen, it's not nice to be on the receiving end. It's just what happened on the night unfortunately. I guarantee South Sydney will have a few big defeats put on them this season because it's impossible to get it right in every game The lads will learn an awful lot from it.'"
Good post. It was fine margins. We had identified our starts as a problem but we hadn't fixed the problem. We didn't have the personnel to recover. But we came so close to scoring twice (held up/dropped ball) - had just one of those stuck our confidence would have grown and things might have been different.
The Dogs conceded 30 points to Souths in the GF and they're in the same league. This was just a bad night for Saints, and disappointing for the fans not least IMO because I thought we now had a better defence than that!
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44308_1279480467.gif Mugwump mocking mental illness for a second time -
"You are mentally ill and I can't indulge your madness any more"
Utter disgusting abusive remark from a keyboard warrior:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_44308.gif |
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| Quote: Magic Superbeetle "Right. I wasn't going to post tonight, because calming down is always advised. But I have to say something.
To me, the facts are these. Saints are currently set up to take on anyone in SL. The small 3/4 line is fine against 99% of opposition in SL and even when they're not we have enough size in the pack to conteract those who can beat us in that area. However, the physicality in the outside backs, snuffed any space we were able to create. We came close to matching them in the pack (I wouldn't go so far to say we matched their pack, but we did at least as well as Bulldogs did in the GF imo, which is no shoddy thing looking at their pack!) Percival would have scored both against SL opposition and in 3 years will score similar chances.
It's very easy to throw the baby out of the pram in these situations. I'm sure in the coming days opposition fans will love to stick the boot in, but no one in this league would of done any better. They might not of scored through kicks like they did with us, but they'd of found a way, because Maguire is a very good coach. It wasn't a fun night, but it's important that we carry our heads high.
The advantage of Jones over Flanagan is obvious now we had LMS in the centres, and obviously Walsh coming back can't happen soon enough. Lomax is the one I'm closest to calling though. His positioning was poor today and was exposed. I thought Thompson showed up well, and actually won metres in the collision at times which was more than most, and Walmsley was our clear mom.'"
Lomax has lost so much pace it's unreal. Massively out of position as well.
I think we are good super league side but we have NO world class players so when we come up against teams like Souths it sticks out like sore thumb. Wilkin was awful and again shows he's ok in halves in super league but not against world class teams.
Not going to go into this in depth but ......Mose!
The gap between NRL and super league is as big as ever. At times in the first half we held our own but the min they upper their gear we looked so poor.
I expected a hammering and we got one.
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Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG The new young dynasty of super saints is coming to a ground near you.
Welsby-Dodd-Simms-Eaves-Rizzelli, not Eastmond...the future is coming.:Dwarfs, Gnomes, Halflings/GNOME2.JPG |
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| I didn,t think we were that far away with our pack it was just our backline that was exposed as men against boys. With the execption of Percival all our backs were fully exposed for all to see not enough size, stamina, strength speed etc. Johnny Lomax looked a little boy lost last night.
Also we must not forget that this NRL team where head and shoulders above all the teams in the comp and put 30 points on a very good Canterbury Bulldogs side in the grand final.
If we ask where do we go from here, we don't, I can't see any superleague side having a back line like the Rabbitoh's at there disposal, there backline would probably demolish an all england side let alone a superleague one.
Could we have beaten St George or Brisbane probably yes, but the reality check is that not many teams will beat Sydney Rabbitoh's never mind a superleague one.
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