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| There's nothing new in this. Hanley got away with it for years.
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| Quote ExiledWool="ExiledWool"The problem with the holding down is that it always goes against the defender. I don't think I've ever seen a penalty given against the attacking player for holding down and thereby not allowing the defender to leave the ruck. Is there a rule for that?'"
I'm sure i've seen penalties given for it in the past.
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| Quote talulah="talulah"Surely it's only cheating if it's against the rules, which it isn't? It is the tackler's responsibility to remove his arm from that position. If the tackler can't do that then he shouldn't have put his arm there in the first place.
Your complaint about "conning the ref" is completely untrue. The referee knows exactly what is going on, [size=150but since it's not against the rules what can he do?[/size
Under the current rules Sam Tomkins has every right to do what he is doing, and of course it is rather successful so he's not likely to change. And of course the referees cannot do anything about it but penalise the tackler. Blaming Sam Tomkins by calling him a cheat is ridiculous.
I do understand that the hatred of Sam Tomkins by other teams' fans such as yourselves is largely down to his arrogance (required in a good half-back), and his high ability (that's why we Wiganers hate Keiron Cunningham so much!). That explains the majority of posts in this thread (and the majority of those on Leeds' board)!
I wouldn't necessarily be against changing those rules for next season, but it would then make it the referee's job to decide whether the tackler is deliberately leaving his arm there and pretending not to be able to extract it, and that may cause a lot more problems than the current situation.'"
Thats easy. If he knows whats going on, he can when he sees it allow players additional time to untangle themself from Tomkin's arm.
He is cheating; he knows exactly what he is doing and if he does it against the convicts and gets away with it, I'll probably think well done. I don't for a minute think he will get away with in Oz / NZ. Their refs are not quite as forgiving as ours (unless of course you are called Mason and you want to punch another player). 
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| Quote Saint Simon="Saint Simon":STUPID:
how is playing within the rules of the game cheating? please explain that to me'"
Beause though it may not be written in the rules doing something like that to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent is cheating. Think about it before criticising my beliefs.
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| Sam conned the ref twice. If we can all see it, the ref should be smart enough to spot it.
He can either just not give a penalty, meaning that Wigan get a slow play, or he can warn and the penalise Sam for holding the tackler.
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| We're getting on his back because he does it quite frequently, one or twice, it wouldn't be as noticed, but he's been doing it every time I've seen them on sky, and still he gets away with it, that's why people are "witch hunting" him.
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| Quote WireWireWire="WireWireWire"We're getting on his back because he does it quite frequently, one or twice, it wouldn't be as noticed, but he's been doing it every time I've seen them on sky, and still he gets away with it, that's why people are "witch hunting" him.'"
At the end of the day it's down to the refs - pretty much everyone knows he does it now so the refs should just either let it go and just let Sam slow his own team down or penalise him (ungentlemanly conduct maybe?).. he'd soon stop doing it.
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| Quote saint at wire="saint at wire"Thats easy. If he knows whats going on, he can when he sees it allow players additional time to untangle themself from Tomkin's arm.'"
How can the ref allow additional time? The time that a tackler has to get away from the tackle is specified in the rules. If the ref allows more than that then he is not applying the rules of the game. which is his job out there.
You could argue that the rules should be changed, which is a reasonable standpoint (bearing in mind the consequential difficulties that could arise from that), but criticising Sam Tomkins for playing to the rules shows that you are probably arguing this point just because it is Sam Tomkins. I understand that (I dislike Leon Pryce for example, partly for how he plays, but mostly because he is so good  ) but it is not the basis for a solid argument.
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| Quote WireWireWire="WireWireWire"We're getting on his back because he does it quite frequently, one or twice,'" I've seen it from others though, Ablett from leeds, for example. Players are getting more proffesional, refs need to keep up.
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| Christ!
All teams and all players try and get away with as much as they can - just because sam has been highlighted on TV by a commentator who can't tell the difference between Tommy L and Piggy in slow motion everyone is going crazy about it.
Players are constantly trying to push the ball out of the attackers hands in a multiple tackle to make it look like a knock on - that's conning the ref - shouldn't we start a witchhunt on that?
Defenders constantly stand with one foot over the try line when they should have both on it when they think the ref isn't looking - thats conning the ref - should we start a witchhunt over that.
Some players claim for a try when they are nowhere near grounding the ball - again conning the ref - witchhunt anyone?
Or shall we wait until Eddie comes up with his next petty thing to go on about and follow that like sheep for a while?
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| Quote Big Steve="Big Steve"Christ!
All teams and all players try and get away with as much as they can - just because sam has been highlighted on TV by a commentator who can't tell the difference between Tommy L and Piggy in slow motion everyone is going crazy about it.
Players are constantly trying to push the ball out of the attackers hands in a multiple tackle to make it look like a knock on - that's conning the ref - shouldn't we start a witchhunt on that?
Defenders constantly stand with one foot over the try line when they should have both on it when they think the ref isn't looking - thats conning the ref - should we start a witchhunt over that.
Some players claim for a try when they are nowhere near grounding the ball - again conning the ref - witchhunt anyone?
Or shall we wait until Eddie comes up with his next petty thing to go on about and follow that like sheep for a while?'"
Completely agree with this post, players have and always will push the boundaries and try to get away with what they can, if the ref can't determine what is happening then a player will fill his boots. Its not like its a new thing, players have done it for years. Eddie is getting more annoying as the years go by, they need to hand over to Mr Carney who just gets better.
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| Quote St-Bernards Head="St-Bernards Head"Beause though it may not be written in the rules doing something like that to gain an unfair advantage over an opponent is cheating. Think about it before criticising my beliefs.'"
you're just showing a lack of knowledge of the rules of the game, your "beliefs" are irrelevant! Tompkins played to the rules and should be applauded, noone has yet said what he's supposed to have done wrong???
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