Sounds like Muggers is being visited by the Black Dog. Cheer up old chap. Your concerns are valid, but it's unlikely that all the negative possible outcomes will simultaneously come to pass. There may be some positives as well.

In twenty years our youth system has produced Cunningham, Roby and Graham. Three genuine world class, best at their position players. It's not Brisbane Broncos but it is significantly better than any other British club. The only other team that comes close is Bradford who brought through Fielden and Peacock but even then the former faded before his natural peak and was he really the best in the world at prop? Probably not. I would add that both the Tomkins brothers have potential to rise to the top too but it's too early to judge.

ps don't forget little cloughy, more and more a prop each year. Then there is emmitt who went to Cas and Johnson at Wakey.

There are 4 props how many do we want to produce each year?????

Before Wellens. We're looking at a ten year gap. Possibly more.



I'm sorry but this is pure historical revisionism. We are NOT "far better" than what we were. Indeed, there's an argument to say that our junior set-up was as good (some might even say BETTER) under Eric Hughes (think of the players that generation produced - not least of whom is Cunningham). And let's not forget that Hughes (and British RL as a whole) didn't have half the advantages our current coaches possess.

And since when did picking out traditionally weak positions as far as development is concerned count as loaded reasoning?

Jes I only asked if you were feeling down and tried to give some +ve's to cheer you a little.

Some people don't want to be happy.


In the end the league will tell, currently we are 5 GF's on the bounce and 3rd a 3rd of the way through the current season. We can't get to the top of the NRL because we don't play in it. If we did then we would have access to their cash and the selling Graham would be a mute point as he would not need to leave to play in the NRL.

Saints can only compete where we can, and in those circles we are doing nicely, thankyou very much. We are one of the top clubs, developing players and not all players will be world class, but not every NRL club produces world class players.

You seam to want to be depressed so I'll stop trying to cheer you up, but I disagree entirely with your premise.

Eric Huges was in charge from 1994 for just over 2 years, was he was promoted to the role directly from the Academy? Otherwise you cannot possibly claim Cunningham was a Hughes gem seeing as he'd have come from a previous Youth set up.

Extending Huges effects through to 1998 the kind of junior players that era brought through were Chris Morley, Joey Hayes, Richard Shiel, Andy Leatham, Danny Arnold, Paul Anderson (the centre), John McAtee, Brian Capewell, Tony Stewart, Jason Johnson, Lee Briers, Alan Cross, Scott Barrow.

There are a couple of decent players and others showed promise but it is hardly a who's who of Super League talent and trophies is it, let alone International and World Class? And Hughes wasn't restricted with a paltry salary cap, or pro rugby union and football, while dominant was far less celebrity instant millionaire that it is now.

Back to the present day the fact we could concievably field a decent starting 13 entirely based from academy products suggests we are doing fairly well at prodcuing SL talent

Wellens, Foster, Armstrong, Wheeler, Makinson, Gaskell, Lomax, Graham, Roby, Clough, Ashurst, Dixon, Magennis
Throw in a bench of last season departures doing ok in SL too: Jake Emmit, Paul Johnson, Chris Dean, Kyle Eastmond.

I accept it is not perfect and I know not all of the above will have long successful careers but it is clearly improving and the standard being produced is definitely better.

With such a great youth system, which follows that of such as Leeds and Wigan it is unfortunate that you felt that you had to come to London to take LMS a player brought through the London Youth system which is starting to develop.

As I say it is not perfect, I think having a winning squad entirely based from your own academy is going to be more fluke than anything else, some players come through and then don't kick on.

LMS is a credit to the youth RL in London, may many more come through. It is the best way to grow the sport from the ground up

Boohoo , why is it unfortunate? players move on for new challenges and to develop - Jammer is off to the NRL to develop and LMS has decided to do the same with Saints, he looked like he'd gone a bit stale down at quins anyway. Nothing unfortunate about it, it's life and it opens up a spot in the Quins team for someone else.

I don't think we follow anyone. We developed it all by ourselves.

As for LMS, you miss what he has done for rugby in London. I listened to an interview with him on Radio London shortly after he'd moved up here. The links to our earlier Londoner were made but also just how well the Quins are doing to be able to produce someone who is sought after by other clubs. Like Shenton at Cas and Jammer here at Saints, I think LMS had grown a bit stale in London and wanted to start afresh with a new challenge. As it is, whenever he plays he is promoting the London connection which can only be a good thing IMO.

Big club signs top performer from small club shocker!!

Almost never happens, that.

I can assure you I fully support LMS now at St Helens and I can see why he would want to make the move, but like James I still think with home developed players by a club that a fee should be paid and no waiting until the end of the contract. I am one of those who think in the case of LMS he will want to return to London one day and play!

I think you live in cloud cuckoo land. Sport is a business and why would any business pay for something they can legally get for free? Bosman changed sport get over it.

Typical response! you can only look rede and white shirt, it suits you, players under a certain age should not be able to transfer without a fee when he has been developed by that club, same with any player would you like to lose Jamie Foster for nothing. I think the difference is I may support Quins RL, but I always think "All for the Good of The Game" and not blinkered about soley about the club I follow and support! so it is my opinion! which is what forums are about and it is You that should Get Over it! have a nice weekend! lol