FORUMS > St. Helens > Half back situation |
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 2681 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Top Saint "I have to say that I only partly agree with this. Lance cannot be blamed for the lack of half back options for the first part of the season, Gaskell was his partner then. Lomax started playing better when Hohaia was moved to stand off for the Leeds game. We started to see the best of him while Lance was first moved to stand off. Maybe that is as much to do with ' A change is as good as a rest '. What has happened is that Lance hasn't got any better at stand off with more games as many would have expected. The Initial change effect has worn off and Lomax is finding that he has to do most of the organising and playmaking ( Not his natural game ). What is the answer? I think it may work if we swap Wellens and Lance around. Wello was a junior grade Stand off and unfortunately his diminishing lack of pace can no longer be covered by his excellent positioning and defence. I also think Lance needs the playmaking and kicking responsibilities taken away so he can concentrate on finding some form.
Only a thought!'"
I didn't say it was all his fault
I don't think moving Wellens is the answer tbh: for me Wellens either plays at FB or not at all.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1220 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2023 | Sep 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Albion "I didn't say it was all his fault
99.99% of all complaints with regard to wellens is his lack of pace. No one ever questions his commitment, skill level or desire to win. Lance is clearly ( to us fans at least ) not working at stand off. Wellens has covered there in the past. ATM anything is worth a try. Our lack of organisation and go forward in attack means doing nothing is not an option. I must be one of the few on here who doesn't rate Gaskell at stand off so personally I wouldn't have him there ( Been tried, Doesn't work ). Last season for me was just an all round backs to the wall effort by the whole team. Gaskells shortcomings were glossed over because of the very low expectation level and lack of pressure which comes with that.
That leaves us with a choice of the 3 W's. Wellens, Wilkin or wheeler? I think we need wheeler at centre ATM ( to replace Shenton who is poop ) and Jones keeping his place. Wilkin is ok but unspectacular, so would have to be Wellens for me.
Last thought!
Roby at stand off and Hohaia Hooking.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Top Saint "snip'" To be honest, Wellens lack of pace isn't what concerns me. He can still tailor his game to get the best out of himself by playing clever around the ruck in attck and looks nice and solid again under the high ball.
My bugbear is that when it gets to him at 2nd pivot in attack, the play dies. That's as much to do with his handling not being as slick as, say, Brett Hodgson's as it is to do with lack of pace. [iIf[/i he had electric pace, it would go away to making up for this deficiency, but he hasn't.
I think Makinson, Wheeler, Gaskell, Hohaia and Lomax would all deliver more in that attacking position out wide imo.
I think we're all agreed that Lomax and Hohaia in the halve is too limited and we should bring Gaskell in. I'd play one of Lomax and Hohaia at 1st receiver and one at full back.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 11377 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Offside Monkey "I'd play one of Lomax and Hohaia at 1st receiver and one at full back.'"
I'm still of the opinion that playing Lance as an impact hooker is where we'll get the most out of him, with Robes moving to LF whilst he's on the pitch (or even getting a well earned rest, heaven forbid!)
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "I'm still of the opinion that playing Lance as an impact hooker is where we'll get the most out of him, with Robes moving to LF whilst he's on the pitch (or even getting a well earned rest, heaven forbid!)'"
I'd go with that(I like Lomax at #7 - I think he can do a great job in the right partnership), but I'd still change out the fullback.
Whether it be going with Makinson for pace or someone like Wheeler for craft and evasion.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 11377 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: Offside Monkey "I'd go with that(I like Lomax at #7 - I think he can do a great job in the right partnership), but I'd still change out the fullback.
Whether it be going with Makinson for pace or someone like Wheeler for craft and evasion.'"
I'm not convinced we need to replace Wello at FB, he has lots of good points. We just need to tweak out predictable backs moves to involve him at an earlier point rather than at the strike end.
If we did bite the bullet and replace him, my only concern would be at right centre, where a decision would have to be made, a a choice between Clough/Magennis on the bench:
Makinson
Gardner
Shenton/Jones/Flannery/Wellens (my personal preference would be Jones, then Shenton)
Wheeler
Meli
Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Laffranchi
Soliola
Flanagan
Wilkin
LMS
TP
Clough/Magennis
Lance
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 27 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2012 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2013 | Jun 2012 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Signing Lance Hohaia was a huge mistake. I just didn't see the sense in it. It reminds me of when we signed Darrell Trindall.
I'll say it one last time cos I'm bleating on. If we don't sign a scrum half for next season then it'll be the same again.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 2928 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2018 | Dec 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Our main failing in tge halves is a lack of kicking game, hohaias kicking is poor, wellens is non existent. Moving him to the halfs makes the kicking problem worse, not better.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 10399 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2016 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "I'm not convinced we need to replace Wello at FB, he has lots of good points. We just need to tweak out predictable backs moves to involve him at an earlier point rather than at the strike end.
'"
You may be right.
If you go back to the Leeds game. Have a look at the try Wheeler scores. At that point, Roby had gone of, Lance was at hooker and Wilkin (now at #6) throws the killer pass. It was slick as an oil spill.
Why can't we recreate that sort of thing more often?
Quote: FearTheVee " a choice between Clough/Magennis on the bench '" Not a hard choice for me. I reckon Clough's been one of our best performers over that last few weeks and I'm yet to see a game wheree Magennis has impressed me as a physical presence in the pack.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 16170 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Oct 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "I'm still of the opinion that playing Lance as an impact hooker is where we'll get the most out of him, with Robes moving to LF whilst he's on the pitch (or even getting a well earned rest, heaven forbid!)'"
That's what Simmons was doing with Scott Moore and Robes last year wasn't he?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 14094 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2019 | Jul 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: SaintsFan "Lomax has played no.6 throughout his rugby career. Rush has been quoted as saying that all his coaches have stated he has been their best player within his cohort.
Lomax is definitely a halfback but which one? Simmons was quoted last season as saying he wasn't ready for international honours but hey-ho he was promoted from the Knights to the England team anyway. He hasn't yet had a full season in the scrum half jersey and I would like to know what Longy was like after less than a season in that position? My guess is he wasn't setting the world alight.
Lomax needs continued coaching, he needs support, he needs time and he needs an experienced halfback partner who is actually going to help him rather than hinder him.'"
This post is full of common sense.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 27757 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2021 | May 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: FearTheVee "I'm not convinced we need to replace Wello at FB'"
Seriously? Wello is really only useful coming into the line when we're about ten to twenty metres out because the opposition knows that they can focus on his outside runners due to the lack of pace he has. Compare him to somebody with pace and look how indecisive a defence is when faced with the threat of a full back who, if you give them a yard, is gone through the gap. A fast, attacking full back has been a necessity at the very top of RL since Anthony Minichiello won the golden boot which was over seven years ago. I don't know of any NRL teams which could operate without one now. Seven years ago that wasn't a major issue because those other qualities were strong enough to compensate for any pace differentials, now they are not.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7498 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2023 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 7498 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2023 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: SaintsFan ". He hasn't yet had a full season in the scrum half jersey and I would like to know what Longy was like after less than a season in that position? My guess is he wasn't setting the world alight.
Lomax needs continued coaching, he needs support, he needs time and he needs an experienced halfback partner who is actually going to help him rather than hinder him.'"
Sean Long was a 6 when we bought him but we converted him to play 7 when Goulding left and Tommy Martyn came back from one of his many injuries. As you say he benefited from having an experienced half with him and also from having KC at 9 and players like Scully and Karl Hammond in the team.
Lomax needs coaching and he could do with a half with experience to partner him not some half d wannabe halfback who is better suited to fullback or hooker.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 5355 | |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Apr 2023 | Apr 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote: SaintsFan "
Lomax needs continued coaching, he needs support, he needs time and he needs an experienced halfback partner who is actually going to help him rather than hinder him.'"
I know a club where Jon could play and get all the things that you you list
|
|
|
|
|
|