And Wigan made plenty of yards in the Grand Final, granddad. Ultimately it's less about the number of yards or tackles made or missed - but such's impact upon the only statistic that matters.

After all, there are mistakes and there are GAME BLOWING HOWLERS.

But, for instance) Sarginson was completely dominated by Bridge in that game at Wire. No one has ever done that to Tuner while he has been at Saints and I can't imagine anyone shy of an Inglis standing a chance.

It would be interesting to go back and have a look at the nature of each miss.

You brought the relative defensive qualities of the two players up and as usual have been shown up for being completely wrong, but don't let facts get in the way of your inability to understand what goes on.

No they weren't.
And Turner missed six v Leeds

Correct, it was 3 against Chris Bridge, seemed a bit more. The 5 misses where against the Catalans. Think its Charnley who is the turnstile in the Wigan side.

Anyway, I'd agree. Turner is a very good player for and underrated by many (including Roguey).

He was devastating in France, had he stayed on the result may have well gone differently, in other recent weeks he's scored tries by bumping of the substantial frames of both Joel Tomkins and Ben Westwood. Good Hands/Plenty of assists. A judicious decision maker ball in hand. Comes up with some lovely kicks from the centre channel which give us an extra option towards the end of the set.

Despite an alleged high missed tackle count, they rarely seem to grab peoples attention, so can't be at important times/situations, but once a game he does tend to come up with an absolute crunching tackle. Given how quickly fans are to get on a players back AND how some "fans" love to slag off Turner no matter what, if his missed tackles were costing us, someone (other than the old pieman) would be harping on about it.

Have you forgotten to buy a fresh pad of Post-It notes to scribble reminders about who said what - you know, as an aid to your fossilised brain - like the guy out of Memento? It was YOU who brought up statistics. And it was YOUR FANS who described Sarginson as a "Turnstile" (and worse!).

I'm not knocking Turner for the brilliant kick or indeed anything else but I thought the try was offside. Can't argue with the VR though can I?

At the absolute worst I thought McDonnell was level. A "benefit of the doubt" situation if ever I saw one.

Turner is a decent centre but his defence is a massive worry. It's weird as he can put in some really good hard shots but the min he has to make a decision or a player has foot work then Hes in a world of trouble. He misses about 4/5 tackles most weeks which isn't good enough on the edges.

It seems if he makes few breaks but misses 5 tackles that fans say he had a good game. People was ranting and raving about him at catalan because he was ripping holes in them but at the same time he was missing tackles and being caught out regular in the short time he played.

It depends on the circumstances, and the short memories of fans, I suppose. If he misses 5 tackles, but is either saved by the winger, or his miss means the winger is out of position and looks to be to blame for the missed tackle then it's forgotten. IMO missed tackles are only remembered if they pretty much directly lead to an obvious try or big gain (ie the oppo centre strolls straight through the hole Tuner has created).

Missed tackles are what puts teams under pressure and field position so it does effect even if not directly causes a try.