You did make up for it by having Silverwood though.

Sorry but these needing a loss stuff is nonsense. No loss is a good loss. LMS is good when the goings good, he's not the kind of forward you want in an arm wrestle.

Yes, Lance has gone some way to winning me over. The way Jordan Turner has played over the last couple of weeks, though, I'd consider giving Wheeler a run at right centre.

Agreed. LMS is unconvincing as a front line prop.

Absolutely priceless!

We had no go forward from the pack.
We stood off in defense waiting for the runners and didn't close down any second phase attack.
The backs looked painfully slow in possession.
The whole team looked lethargic.
All the luck went the pies way today.

That performance has been coming for weeks and we will just have to accept it, dust our selves off and think about Monday. All of a sudden that is a big game.

We need someone in the dressing room before each half to wind the players up as Wane does. They looked, to a man, that they wanted it more. That for me is not acceptable.

We were beaten by the better team on the day. we accept it and move on.

Bottom line is that, as is normal in derbies, Wigan were much more aggressive than us, intimidated and dominated our pack from the start, and built a platform for their backs off that.

It truly pains me to say this, but I can't remember the last time a saints pack wasn't bullied and scared by the Wigan pack.

Only other point worth mentioning is that wane clearly, and correctly, identified turner as a defensive weakness. Both in terms of his tackling in space, and his Gardner-esque uselessness under a high ball. Turner needs to be dropped. Other teams will look to target him very week now.

Wigan was just to good for us today. No excuses from me about anything. Maybe the odd high shot etc but nothing IMO that would have changed the game.

Our defence was woeful. I said early in the season I feel our defence isn't as good as it should be and I got shot down. Do people still think it's good? I certainly don't!

Pre-season we spoke about how strong our pack is but I'm not so sure. We've been dominated the last 3 weeks. Today I was embarrassed at how soft our pack was. Wigan was very aggressive and physical and we was soft. If you take Amor out the front row and we struggle big time.

I'm not so sure the Mose, walmsley, Lms combo can work. Mose and big Alex are knackered after 15 mins, Lms isn't a front line prop so we depend on Amor to much. IMHO we need a prop brought in who is fit, agile and can do mins. It's clear how we struggle when Amor off the field or doesn't play.

To much emphasis on Walsh. When he goes quite, we go quite. That's not his fault, we can't expect him to play every set. Obviously we need a 6 but that's no big shock.

Some awful performances today but what does Matty Dawson offer? I'd rather have Ade back on the wing than him. Poor in defence and dead in a attack.

Shameful performance from Saints.

Is this season following 'the Brown philosophy' (start the season well, then fade into indifference)?

The writing's been on the wall for a few games now. The pack especially isn't being aggressive enough and winning the contact. On paper, we should be stuffing that rather average wi*an team. But, as has been said, we looked lethargic. And the game isn't played on paper. The semi-shaven ape had his players pumped and they looked like they wanted it more. That is inexcusable.

We had Brown before the game almost paying tribute to wi*an. WTF???? Has he no understanding of the hatred we have for the scummy, inbred, six-toed freaks?

Just as Brown took the platitudes for a good start to the season, so he must carry the can for this nauseating, powder-puff no-show.

Brown, either get the players up for games like this, or feck off.

The more I watch LMS the more I think he's really a big second rower. We have two very good impact type props but we could do with another tough grinder to back up Amor.

And Mose is the same!

Mose won't do the hard yards. It's very rare you'll see him take the ball up in our own 20m.

Got took apart. All credit to Wigan and more importantly Shaun Wane who manages to get his team up for it every time; something we really do lack.

Thought Mose and Walmsley did well but LMS was awful. As was the backrow who looked pretty invisible.

Felt sorry for Walsh who seems to be expected to fo everything for us. Obviously need a 6 who offers more than Lance does.

As far as defence, everytime Wigan shifted the ball wide we looked in trouble and that must be down to coaching surely?

Exactly what I posted earlier I the thread. We've got two impact props in Alex and Mose. Lms for me isn't a front line prop so it only leaves us with Amor.

I'd be very reluctant in picking LMS against Wigan again. He just gets smashed by the Wigan pack. When you play Wigan, you need to have fire v fire and to many soft forwards in our pack.

The defence out wide might be down to coaching but IMO if you've got a centre who can't tackle (Turner) then no matter what you do it's going to be touch.

Sure enough you can have a second row over to protect him but it's not as easy as it sounds when Wigan have the amount of runners they have.

Who plays centre in the academy? Can we have anyone else there besides Wheeler