I would agree with you if we look at the first 6 weeks of the season, but we have been in disarray for 2/3 of the season and not all down to Nathan Brown. The club has had to overcome lots of obstacles , I think you need to judge next season on the last 6 weeks of this season.
We have potentially an exciting back line and a powerful pack for next season. Our pivotal positions of 1, 6, 7 9 and 13 look as though its now been established for next season, Nathan Brown will work on game plans and set plays now he has got something to work with.

Take 6, 7 and 9 out of Huddersfield, Warrington, Wigan, Leeds for 2/3 of the season and we would have been a lot more competitive.

What have YOU been watching?

This season? Some of the worst rugby I've ever seen Saints come up with. We've had a couple of months of decent performances recently, but what went before that was pretty shocking.

Laughable that you can criticise NB saddened. I'm convinced its just to live up to youre user name as some find it amusing. Unfortunately some of youre comments make you look a bit of a pillock or you don't watch many of the games at all. Fundamental to any side are the pivots. The key positions 1,6,7 & 9. Lomax & Roby have missed huge chunks this season & its took Brown a while to find a half back combination but more so, the likes of Wilkin to develop & understand his role in an alien position. Wigan cant win a game without Tomkins, so I'm not sure what you expect without any key players.
Considering the kids weve bloodied, the squad he's building & the form in the last 3 months as players returned I'd say he's done a great job. Nobody realistically expected us to win anything this year, it was always a re-building process & we look a lot stronger again next season. The Simmons regime & signings were a huge set back for us but we look like getting back on track. It was of no surprise the form of the likes of Manu got better back end of the year as we developed more understanding & continuity in the halves. We miss a leader & organiser & Walsh provides that next year. The pack looks good, Roby & Walsh will thrive behind that & the likes of Turner & Manu will hurt teams with earlier quality ball out wide. One final thing that was beyond reproach was the work ethic & team spirit that squad has developed, epitomised at Leeds. A lot to be positive about.

To be fair to Saddened!, though, we have been unacceptably poor at times this season, injuries or not. However, Brown does seen to have turned things around. Overall I think he's had a pretty ropey season, but his recruitment has demonstrated his awareness of our weak spots and the improvement towards the end of the year has shown that better times are ahead.

One thing we'll always have to live with while Brown is coach is eccentric selection decisions. Sometimes they will work and sometimes they will backfire. Hopefully he will recognise that our best performances came when the side was settled. Having said that, I like the fact that he's not afraid to move people like Wellens out of their established positions. I suppose it's about striking a balance, but I suspect he'll carry on getting it wrong from time to time.

I agree.

I don't think it's any coincidence that we started to perform better once Brown had stopped his bloody tinkering. I really hope he doesn't start up that again with the new season or else we are probably in for a repeat performance.

I don't think it's any coincidence that Brown stopped tinkering when he got some bodies back fit . . . .

He still had his odd moments at the back end of the year, though. That starting pack against Warrington, for example. I think it's just a quirk that we'll have to get used to with Brown. Sometimes it'll reveal something interesting about a player, sometimes it'll cost us points.

I think it's less about tinkering.

Tinkering suggests no plan at all, just switching for the sake of it.

Personally I think there was a plan with the changes for the Wire game, however not all plans are perfect and on that occasion it did not work out, mainly due to players not retaining the ball.

Better ball retention would have lead to that opening 20 minutes being a bit of a slog athone, but I think NB would have been looking to be down by say 6 before bring on our strike players to try and bust open the Warrington defense. As it was the 2nd half of the game plan worked, it was the poor ball retention that gave up too much possession and field position.

Like I say not tinkering, but having more than one plan A, to be used against all teams.

Spot on. A lot of posters on here don't like/get Browns way of thinking and choose to mock it instead of understand it. Brown has given the full squad a run in a number of different positions and in doing so has found the best combinations and identified holes in the squad that our recruiting for next year will fill. Reading the recent article on the Saints website Brown talks about how the team has changed. The back three starting the season as Wellens/Gardner/Meli and ending as Lomax/Makinson/Swift has been an amazing improvement in terms of speed, skill and age, but it has only come about from trial and error. In the end you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

We need to have a long term vision if we are going to improve as a club and challenge for trophies. As fans we need to look at the bigger picture and not just react to the last result regardless if it is good or bad. Brown still has work to do and his legacy at the club will depend on where the club is at the end of his 4 years. Until then I am happy to let him get on with it.

well that was a failure of a season from st helens all said and done. 5th placed finish, out of the playoffs early and out of the cup early.

and you thought nathan brown was the messiah! fooled me too, thought you would win something this year.

With the long term injuries we have had to key players this season, plus a lot of work to undo what Mick Potter started and Royce continued, I think to finish 5th on the back of a "poor season" isnt that bad really.

The way we have improved from the back end of June to how we finished last week has been a huge turnaround, and think NB and the coaching staff need to be recognised for this, I would challenge Huddersfield to have finished any higher if missing Brough & Lunt alone for the majority of the season let alone another 8-10 of their first choice playing squad on top of that.

Our recruitment for next year looks good (an ACTUAL scrum half!! along with some big size added to the pack for a change) and I am confident that Brown is the right man for the job and expect us to win something next season. If we fail to win anything next year, I will be more critical of him but for the adversities we have had this season I think he has done a decent job this year all in all.

nathan brown does not have a plan B ! one his his downfalls when at the giants

Not sure the Giants fans ever got used to it and he did it for all the time he was there so the suggestion that he was somehow finding out who played where in our team doesn't wash with me. It's what he does and it undermines us. When he stopped doing it, after the Chairman made his second big speech to all and sundry, we started to improve. He did it again against Wire and hey-ho we crumbled again.