FORUMS > St. Helens > Unacceptable |
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Jeez, you really have it in for Makinson don't you?
Here are some stats for you. They're only stats, obviously, but they are the only facts we have to hand.
Stats for Lomax in the Warrington game
No I don't have it in for Makinson, I just think his position is wing ( or maybe but I haven't seen him play there ) Not fullback.
Also, just picking one game and producing stats proves nothing. Makinson is an able young player who I actually like, Just not at fullback.
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| Quote: Top Saint "Also, just picking one game and producing stats proves nothing. '"
I did refer to another game. I actually compared his and Lomax's stats for all the games they have played at fullback this season and there isn't much to choose between them. I was extremely bored yesterday.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "I did refer to another game. I actually compared his and Lomax's stats for all the games they have played at fullback this season and there isn't much to choose between them. I was extremely bored yesterday.'"
Stats arnt everything. Lomax looks a real threat at fullback and could potentially become our Sam Tomkins. Makinson looks for the most part solid and competent (nothing wrong with that). It's great to have options and cover and I really like Makinson but I see his future on the wing mainly or centre where I believe he played prior to the first team.
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| The difference between Makinson and Lomax is the genuine threat Lomax has with ball in hand compared to Makinson. Lomax attracts defenders and is able to either evade them or draw them in so the other backs have space. He also arcs his run or runs straight when he receives the ball on the edge which makes defenders hesitant and his pass selection is excellent. The stats don't shown this.
Makinson is a decent player to have in that position but there's no way he's as good as Lomax.
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last Fridays game against Catalan showed both Makinsons strength eg pace to make that excellent break, and also his major weakness at fullback, eg complete inability to draw a man and time a pass.
This weakness is very well highlighted in the blown play at the end of the match when Swift fails to take the stupid pass from Makinson. When Makinson receives the ball there are two players outside him and only one Catalan defender. All he needed to do was draw this defender and it was a walk in try for either the centre or winger.
The official superleague video below at 3 minutes 28 seconds shows this clear as a bell
www.superleague.co.uk/sltv?rD7UZYvehQk
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last Fridays game against Catalan showed both Makinsons strength eg pace to make that excellent break, and also his major weakness at fullback, eg complete inability to draw a man and time a pass.
This weakness is very well highlighted in the blown play at the end of the match when Swift fails to take the stupid pass from Makinson. When Makinson receives the ball there are two players outside him and only one Catalan defender. All he needed to do was draw this defender and it was a walk in try for either the centre or winger.
The official superleague video below at 3 minutes 28 seconds shows this clear as a bell
www.superleague.co.uk/sltv?rD7UZYvehQk
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| Quote: The Chair Maker "This weakness is very well highlighted in the blown play at the end of the match when Swift fails to take the stupid pass from Makinson. '"
That pass reached Swift's hands. So was the pass from Makinson stupid or was it a poor attempt by Swift to catch a ball that was actually in his hands? It could be said that two players, neither of whom are experienced at this level in the positions they are playing, both saw the opportunity and both failed to take it but had both those players been more experienced either Makinson would have done as you suggested, and made a short pass to the centre, or Swift would have been able to take the long pass to exploit the clear gap ahead of him.
Lomax doesn't always get his passes right you know. Quite often he sends in other players to get a right old bashing. He did it when he played in the halves and he has done it while playing at fullback.
I'm getting weary of reading the incessant doing down of Makinson. He has been asked to play at fullback. I am quite sure he is well aware that he is already in the shadow of Lomax. He is still young and still learning the fullback trade at this level and so I think that he should be supported, especially if he is going to be important to us in the next few games.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "That pass reached Swift's hands. So was the pass from Makinson stupid or was it a poor attempt by Swift to catch a ball that was actually in his hands? It could be said that two players, neither of whom are experienced at this level in the positions they are playing, both saw the opportunity and both failed to take it but had both those players been more experienced either Makinson would have done as you suggested, and made a short pass to the centre, or Swift would have been able to take the long pass to exploit the clear gap ahead of him.
Lomax doesn't always get his passes right you know. Quite often he sends in other players to get a right old bashing. He did it when he played in the halves and he has done it while playing at fullback.
I'm getting weary of reading the incessant doing down of Makinson. He has been asked to play at fullback. I am quite sure he is well aware that he is already in the shadow of Lomax. He is still young and still learning the fullback trade at this level and so I think that he should be supported, especially if he is going to be important to us in the next few games.'"
The pass wasn't great, a little hard, a little high and a little behind,but it wasn't a guarenteed drop.
I think what t'other poster was more focused on is that when Mak gets the ball, its a 3 on 2 situation, which should be a guarenteed score from a pro team. If Tommy straightens up the play before passing he'd have drawn Pryce and given their winger little chance of defending. What he did was crab accross the field without committing the defender and actually took our space away, removing the advantage even if Swift had taken the ball.
He will improve in that sort of situation, but I would have honestly expected a little better from him and, as other posters state, in Lomax was getting the ball in that situation, its most likely try time.
You straigten up an force Pryce to commit, when you shape to pass, if he knows they're short of men then he may go and you sell the dummy, if he sticks then you pass and your 3/4s have a 2 on 1.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "I did refer to another game. I actually compared his and Lomax's stats for all the games they have played at fullback this season and there isn't much to choose between them. I was extremely bored yesterday.'"
Not sure which stats you were looking at but you most definitely missed the tries scored column, and that's the most important one.
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| Quote: Donkey OTay "Not sure which stats you were looking at but you most definitely missed the tries scored column, and that's the most important one.'"
But that column wouldn't have supported her argument therefore it was omitted.
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| Quote: Donkey OTay "Not sure which stats you were looking at but you most definitely missed the tries scored column, and that's the most important one.'"
Is it? So Lomax now has to score a hatrick of tries every match or he will be a lesser fullback?
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| Makinson is doing very well at the moment but needs to be more of a threat with ball in hand he doesn,t have the footwork like Lomax to cause defensive uncertainity.
Spare a thought if Makinson gets better would we see the possibility of Lomax re introduced to being a running half back again.
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| Quote: Judder Man "Makinson is doing very well at the moment but needs to be more of a threat with ball in hand he doesn,t have the footwork like Lomax to cause defensive uncertainity.
Spare a thought if Makinson gets better would we see the possibility of Lomax re introduced to being a running half back again.'"
Spot on that mate.
Makinson is a runner, but he doesn't have the footwork required to play in the Full Back position. Ideally, you want your 1 to be a second Stand-Off in the modern game, and although Lomax lacks the authority to control a game from 7, his vision, and his pass selection out the back is first class. Makinson would improve in those areas over time, but as I say, Lomax is an ideal Full Back in the modern game.
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| Quote: Tez the Saint "Spot on that mate.
Makinson is a runner, but he doesn't have the footwork required to play in the Full Back position. Ideally, you want your 1 to be a second Stand-Off in the modern game, and although Lomax lacks the authority to control a game from 7, his vision, and his pass selection out the back is first class. Makinson would improve in those areas over time, but as I say, Lomax is an ideal Full Back in the modern game.'"
Makinson has extra pace though. As we know, what you do without the ball is also important. If Makinson can develop his movement when goign behind our 1st phase attackers to join the line, the pace of which he can do it should really disturb the oppo defences and create spce for other players.
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| Quote: Offside Monkey "Makinson has extra pace though. As we know, what you do without the ball is also important. If Makinson can develop his movement when goign behind our 1st phase attackers to join the line, the pace of which he can do it should really disturb the oppo defences and create spce for other players.'"
He did that beautifully in the 2011 Grand Final.
Something someone hasn't given any apparent thought to is how he is being coached in his role.
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| Quote: SaintsFan "Something someone hasn't given any apparent thought to is how he is being coached in his role.'"
Interesting, what do you mean by that? Do you think he is being coached to play the role differently to Lomax?
Whilst it's possible he is being asked not to adopt a ball playing role, I think it's it's more likely that his skill set doesn't allow him to do it as well as Lomax.
That's not a criticism BTW as I think Lomax could make a truly brilliant FB and most players would suffer in comparison to him. Makinson does a decent job there, but Lomax he ain't.
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