Four or five steps is a bit more than"Moving off the mark"

even the greats have bad days

When he learns too pass a ball he may very well be, and you know it's a criticism I've had for a long time. He's a very dangerous ball runner and may be better suited as a 13, which is where I first saw him play.

He may not be highly rated by Rogues, but I'll just take the rating that the ozzies give him. He took Leeds apart and Wire too. Even when Cunningham was at his best he could pass stinkers to ground and make runs that gained 2 inches. When Long and Tommy used to play, they were so good as if one had a bad day the other could cover. If they both had good days we where unstoppable.

The problem with the current team is there are less go to players, so if key names have a bad day, then we don't have that cover across the park.

From the line up on Friday

In the pack our key players were Roby, TP and Sia. (I've not seen Sia since the incident so have no idea if he is back at the same level he left and TP was injured the week before)

In the backs our key players are Lance, lomax. Given that Lomax was injured that left Lance to do it all in the backs and that simply is not enough.

The rest of the team can put in performances don't get me wrong, but have any of these players ever took a game by the scruff of the neck and impossed themselves on it. Makinson, Ade, Shenton, Josh Jones, Meli.

Same for our pack, Perry can have a stormer, but it is usually when the rest of the team is too.. Perry, LMS, Flannery, Flanaghan, Clough, Megennis.

I'm not saying they are poor players or even average players, but when it goes wrong to win big games you need someone to take hold of the game, but because we lacked the players to do it then Roby gets marked as not being up to his usual best, where as Cunningham would have had Scully, Jonyt, and a big Ozzie prop to back him up.

I've not heard about Sia or TP from the game, so if they are not back to 100% then that leaves would leave us with Lance and Roby trying to create for us.

Great player - nasty piece of work. The kind of player you love if they play for you and despise otherwise - lord knows we've had more than a few of them down the years. At least he doesn't hide or just pick on the little guys like certain players at certain clubs situated over the Pennines. He's undoubtedly a *****house, but we might be better off with a few similar *****houses in the squad right now too.

Just looked at this, I can see why some saints fans may be unhappy with the try celebration but saying "once a smack head always a smack head" is probably harsh. Considering what Hock had to do to come back to Super League its quite an achievement he is back at all.

Also Saints fans saying that Wigan folk are idiots and "should ask for a refund of their taxes" because of it probably doesnt paint Saints fans as a whole in a good picture.

A big rivalry is good, but outright nastiness towards other fans should be left in Football.

And also, "Wigan is a football town".

"Wrong" doesnt seem to cover the absurdity of this comment.

LMS kicked the ball aimlessly into the air at the SAINTS end of the ground.

I think it's quite sweet the number of Pies who constantly come on here instead of their own boards. I don't really blame them - if I were on a board full of other Pies I'd want to get the hell out of it and go post somewhere with a bit more class too.

I got banned off the pie munchers board last year for saying - MM is the best Coach in super league but I'm not sure if tomkins is works class yet.

I know you munchers love tomkins but a ban for that!