we need 2 refs on the field (and neither of them James Childs!)

either that, or the Ref needs to manage the ruck, with the touch judges taking total responsibility for the onside / offside 10m line.

And it is, you won and deserved it, Saints is only a nickname.

And a correct one too

This is another of those elements of the game that is being neglected when it comes to enforcement. It sometimes results in benefit for the attacking side, whoever they are. It just needs to be picked up on now and again but maybe the problem is a that of workload for refs during that couple of seconds as mentioned earlier.

Furthermore, the attacking player with the ball pushing the marker in the chest: this should be an instant penalty. Once the tackler has moved away and the players are no longer in contact, should one of them reach out to push or pull the other, that should be an instant penalty. It would take just a few matches to stop the messing around. I'm not a big fan of being selective about which rules to pick up on or making certain infringements fashionable. All elements should be policed.....and I don't mean every occurrence necessarily, but every type just now and again. Notice in Monday night's game (hell, any game) how many times players defending their own line had both feet in the field of play by some considerable distance......

Like most of the rules in our game (and probably other sports), its not policed until something high profile happens. It had been routine for winning teams not to take the ball up with any great agression in the last set of six. Chris Joynt does it in a final and its out and out cheating. I suppose you have to commend coaches and players for noting something to exploit for a period of time, until it becomes widely known and then it clamped down.

watched the video of the game again last night, and this was a major problem all game - with Goulding and Farrell the biggest cuplrits in particular.

At one point Goulding steps 2 feet to his right, Wilkin stands his ground at marker and James Child shouts "he moved to the side" - if you spotted it James, you should penalise him.

I'm pretty sure that I read on the Ask the Ref twitter questions that the touch judges do police the offsides.

There you go, all you need to do is blow for a few penalties and coaches will stop asking their players to do this.

Yup, all we need is fans and the media not to carry on about the ref wanting to be the centre of attention if it happens.

Ah, like Stevo's "let the game flow" argument?

Which is entirely dependent on what mood he's in. He'll be commentating on a Friday night peddling that line, then on Saturday he'll be shouting 'he should have been PENalised' every thirty seconds.

He should be PENalised.....of his job.

That comment about coaches not asking their players to infringe reminds me of a discussion I have with my old man a couple of times a season. When a senior player gives away a penalty for lieing on or holding down (used to be Joynt, now often Wilkin), My pa is close to thrombosis, berating our player. I explain that its likely the more experienced players are coached to do this when we are perhaps being a little overrun, to hinder the opposition's momentum and often they'll get away with it. He says "I'm your dad.....go to your room"

It stands true though.....if they were penailsed more often, teams on the front foot wouldn;t be slowed and the game would be fast and exciting.....or perhaps one sided with a very high score!

And i do recall a game some years back being reffed morer stringently and after half time the players were better behaved, but I couldn't quote numbers or 'owt.

I think the problem was that, around 2006 and before, refs were encouraged to give less time to the tacklers, resulting in a quicker play the ball, but it very much favoured the Brian Smith school of coaching - big forwards, quick play, run from dummy half.
Whilst the game was quick, it was perhaps limiting the amount of constructive, attractive rugby, as the ball often didn't get wide of the ruck.

When we came up against the aussies in or around 2007, we looked (more than usual) way adrift in terms of playmaking ability. That's when they decided to slow things down, give more advantage to the defenses in order to make the attacking teams come up with better plays. I think it has worked - the emergence of the full back as an extra pivot is one result.

It has gone a bit far though and I wonder whether, instead of concetrating solely on the time allowed at the play the ball, they could have a look at what I would call cynical grappling.
Genarally too many second efforts when a guys been tackled and on his way up.
Too often I see a tackled player on the floor and one of the tacklers will grab their loose arm and wrap it in an awkward position.
Very often, the player's tackled stood up, the ref shouts held and the defence are then (for some reason?) allowed half a second extra wrestling to pull him to ground.

Also, we very rarely see the sin-bin used for holding down following a break. This should be a must, IMO.