We are missing someone in the forwards to lead by example like a Scully, Graham Cunningham or Joynt. Someone that can take game by the scruff of the neck. Don't see anyone at saints like that these days.

Also, a lot of wigans mental strength seems to emanate from Wane but not much seems to come from Brown in that respect.

Different coaches, different teams, different players.

Wane will play to his strengths which is obviously aggression and maybe Brown feels we can't match that fire so tried to defuse it.

We need to be able to fight fire with fire. Defusing it by what? Gifting them an early headstart and letting them get 2 scores ahead on a regular basis?

By signing some forwards on because that pack won't live with Wigan in a battle. We got to many impact props and not enough tough hard grafters like Amor.

The second rows are to small and not physically up to it either.

Amor and Walmsley are fine. Beyond that we've got nothing unless Mose finds something.

The second rowers could be okay in Soliola, Manu and LMS. We shouldn't have Wello in there, but I won't start that debate again as we've been there.

I think it's more than personnel though. The attitude is what matters and is where we're lacking. You put O'Loughlin in that Saints team today and it dismantles Wigan. Am I wrong?

The problem with those 4 props, three of them are 15 min impact props. Look at the problems we've had with Amor being out.

Wilkin and flash are to lightweight against big packs.

Also, if I'm being honest, the pies have battered sia black and blue in recent seasons.

But they're doing it with Jordan James playing. I rate Taylor, but Dudson, Flower, Pettybourne and James? It doesn't seem to matter who Wigan field, the outcome seems to be the same.

They are the wane type props tho. He just doesn't sign any prop on, they got to be physical.

James was a passenger today and Dudson is poor but you do a massive disservice to the other two (especially Flower). Pettybourne is adding great impact to the side (obviously couldn't today) and is getting better week on week. As for Ben Flower he's developed at a rate of knots and is one if the best props in superleague now.

He's our best prop without doubt IMO (Taylor is pushing him now though).

In Amor Walmsley and Masoe we have 3 props who can mix it with anyone in the league. I worry we seem to (already) be placing too much on Amor, as the hardened grafter given the other 2 are more impact then battle winners.

Another grafting arm wrestle prop and we have a winning combo. But we have a choice of laffranchi - whom I rate as the best option - but he's much better defensively and is at best able to merely hold whatever position we have in the arm wrestle - or LMS, who has shown he can get fired up and really help tip the scales, but far far far too often does far too little (today being a prime example) to be of any help. Beyond that we have kids, who have the potential to be very good, but aren't ready for week in week out, or having the responsibility of having to influence games. Richards was very impressive when he first came on in the first half, but played too long in the second half and lost a little steam.

We needed someone to take the game by the scruff of the neck today (because let's be honest, it was there for the taking at times) but no one stood up and really took control - whether that was as captain or not. Roby badly needs someone to spell with him he looks over used already, and he could of been the man,

I've said all along I would start with Amor and laffranchi. Tho laffranchi isn't great he's certainly not a impact player so coming off the bench he brings nothing. LMS isn't a starting prop as he's to easliy dominated.

To be honest, Greg Richards is probably about the best starting prop to play alongside Amor. He's big, he's a grafter, he makes good meters and won't take a backward step.


I'm serious when I say this, I wouldn't ever pick LMS against Wigan again. He gets absolutely smashed! It took him 15 mins to take a drive after they smashed him from the kick off. I actually thought he looked actually looked afraid.

I like the option of starting with Amor and one of Masoe/ Walmsley. We're punching holes from the get go, whilst Amor (and Soliola whose been playing very centrally it seems recently) do the hard graft to win the forwards battle. The issues arise when we're missing Amor/ when Amor needs to come off. We need another grafter to come on for him. Richards may be the best option in time, but the lads 18, the worst thing for him would be to play long minutes and burn himself out at this stage!

LMS is a luxury player we can't afford when we're missing Amor and another grafter

Maybe we can share that "starting prop" role with Richards, Walker and Thompson. Let's be honest they are more physically up for it than the showboat prop LMS.

We place alot of emphasis on Amor because he's key to our go forward. Walmsley also plays alot better when Amor is playing alongside him and seems more comfortable with him there.

When Amor isn't there, we look alot softer to me especially in defence.

If we being honest what we tonight would be our biggest asset (the pack) isn't all that tbh.

The Back row is lightweight with Wilkin and Flanaghan, Manu looks very slow and unfit this year. The props are mostly impact props apart from Amor.

Roby looks a shadow of the player he is which I think mainly due to have to be doing to much work as walmsley, Mose get tired after 10 mins, LMS not pulling his weight and Amor not playing.

The pack IMO looks lightweight and soft. We might have big props but they ain't running their weight.