Just got back from tonights Aus vs NZ game:

Aus and Wigan similarities:

1. Whinging coach

2. They think the rules should be written to their likeng

3. Persistant offside

4.Messing about at the PTB

5.Arrogant.

5. Eminently beatable.

3. Persistant offside
4.Messing about at the PTB

Both teams guilty of that imo

In the first half only Aus were doing it and it was ignored by Bentham in spite of the crowd going nuts about it but in the 2nd half NZ seemed to think if you can't beat them, then join them and were just as bad.

I went to the match tonight and I was disappointed by it. I thought Bentham was useless, letting far too much messing around at the PTB, not dinging for offside and letting potential decapitations go all over the place. But I was also disappointed in New Zealand, who I expected more from. Australia weren't exactly on fire, but they rarely are in their first game over here. By the time they meet us, though, they're hot to trot.

I think England have a chance against NZ.

Arrogance is only inherited though success.

Even tho the kiwis was pretty poor last night, especially in the first half, they have some very good players and if they turn it on like we know they can in tue latter part of the comp they will be not far off another cup.

The turn around in kiwi rugby is amazing. They had many injuries and few banned for last night and the whole comp but the depth in quality these days is very good.

The warriors in the NRL has been great success at both club and international level.

The young fullback Kevin locke has ripped it up in the NRL this year and will become world class. Nightingale (sp) on the wing has also ripped it up again this year and must be one of the best wingers in the world.

Adam Blair and packer will be back for the England game and thst will be huge boost for the kiwis as Blair is world class. Add the Blair to a already strong pack with the likes of sika Manu, matulino, moi moi, luke, mannering, Hargreaves and jeremy smith and thst is a awesome pack!


I thought the kiwi halves was poor last night, marshall didn't get involved enough and didn't bring the flair that the Aussies fear.

One of the reasons the Aussies and Kiwis produce better halfbacks than we do is that their game is not dominated by the one dimensional dummy half scoots that Stevo loves. They also have hookers who can pass a ball and kick effectively from dummy half. Cameron Smith was m.o.m. by a mile last night for the way he controlled that game.

completely agree, but saints fans wont be happy because before saints found out that johnny lomax wasn't a full back at orrell st james's and was actually a half back and the best one in hes age in the country at it was there biggest way of attacking and you just have to look at james robys running stat's

Well the coaches of Australia and N Zealand thought the officiating was cr@p but youll know better no doubt.
Cameron Smith was one of the worst offenders at the play ball. Does stepping off the mark to gain an illegal advantage ring any bells with you?
Your barely disguised dig at one of this countries best players Is getting very boring,troll on.

It's nothing to do with any one player. It's about our (as a game) over reliance on dummy half running, and the fact that as a consequence we do not produce halfbacks who can control a game. I was making the same observations years ago when Mickey Higham was Wigan.

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Tim Sheens complained at the slowness of the play the ball. I guess it was ok when Oz were lying on, but not when the Kiwi's did it.Having said that I feel that England have a long way to go to match these teams (Hope I'm wrong.







































l

There's two arguments to what you say regards slow and quick ptb's.

A slow ptb means like you say, the HB's have to be more creative, you have to pass around a team rather than scoot through but the game sometimes looks a little laboured and too structured and it comes down to who executes their x and y plays the best.

A quick ptb means the defence have to be well drilled, concentrate and most of all, need the fitness of a husky. It's up to the defence to stop the scooting by actually not being lazy, when wire played saints we were not laying on in the tackle yet we were prepared for Roby and his scoots, that's why Lomax and Gaskell were prominent in those games. You can still have quick ptb and neutralize a scooting hooker.

id agree if ref's didn't penalise the markers if the tackled player moved away from hes mark then it would take away a huge advantage of doing it not just say to the tackled player well your shortening the ten meters(bentham said this clear as day light last night). id say you would need to be more fitter and more drilled with the wrestle as you need more players in the tackles and its more draining wrestling than just back pedeling ten meters. scouting just gets very repetative and boring put back moves together or offloading is more prittier to my eye.