One thing that really stuck in my mind from watching the game on Saturday was that Wigan could afford to drop Hock from their cup final squad. It made me realise just how short on numbers we are this season and are more than likely to be next season.

We do have a lot of quality players but we do not have a depth of squad that makes it easy to challenge for honours.

I know money is tight and we can not afford to spend money we do not have, but it is still a bit depressing all the same

We spend up to the cap. Which begs the question, where the f*** is it all going?

On about 15 rep players, some rep players in waiting and some good youngsters?

Then we're not getting good value from it. We have a tiny squad, not only in terms of numbers but also in terms of quality. Teams like Warrington and Wigan have more star players than us and more players in general.

Warrington's 1st team squad is 30 players, ours is 34. But taking the top 30 (i.e. ignoring Josh Jones, Joe Greenwood, Warren Thompson and Jordan Hand).

Wire have perhaps 16 "experienced" players as below, plus Chris Riley (read Jamie Foster) and Richie Myler (read Jonny Lomax).

B Hodgson
M King
C Bridge
J Monaghan
L Briers
A Morley
M Monaghan
G Carvell
L Anderson
B Westwood
B Harrison
M Higham
J Clarke
P Wood
S Grix
R Atkins

then the likes of Mitchell, Cooper, Blythe, McCarthy, Evans then kids.

Saints are pretty much the same, with 16 experienced players plus Jamie Foster (Chris Riley) and Jonny Lomax (Richie Myler)

Paul Wellens
Ade Gardner
Michael Shenton
Sia Soliola
Francis Meli
Leon Pryce
Kyle Eastmond
Josh Perry
James Roby
James Graham
Tony Puletua
Jon Wilkin
Chris Flannery
Scott Moore
LMS
Paul Clough

We then have the likes of Wheeler, Ashurst, Dixon, Magennis, Armstrong, Gaskell, Makinson who have played a fair bit of first team, then kids.

The difference between us and Wire isn't squad depth, it's number of injuries.

Wigan's squad depth is tremendous because they have the best youth system in the UK game, and fair play to them for that.

Every club's squad is 25 players; that is how the salary cap is calculated.

And questions have to be asked about why that is such a recurring theme. When do you ever see Warrington, Wigan, Huddersfield or Catalans with 10+ players missing? You don't.

Warrington's squad might not be numerically superior when you list them like that, but they are better man for man in all but one or two positions in the 17.

That wasn't the point I was making; the thread is called "squad depth" and you said Warrington had more players in general - they don't. They simply have had less injuries which makes their squad seem stronger (or their back room team better, which could well be a consideration).

You keep saying they are better man for man but we finished above them with a weakened squad last season and knocked them out of the play-offs. Had we hung on to our half time lead at their place this year (again with a weakened team) we would have been a massive 1 point behind them going into last weekend's games despite an awful time with injuries this year (no doubt with a different attitude to the Hull KR game as a result).

If's and buts I realise, but people talk about it lke there's some sort of cavernous ravine between the teams, it's nonsense.

We may well knock them out of the play-offs again this year. Nobody gave us a shot last year with Smith/Wilkin in the halves (more good luck with injuries) but we carried it off.

There isn't anything between the sides in terms of numbers or talent, other than injuries and perhaps (more worringly) coach.

For cap purposes maybe, but we've used 28 players this year I think?

If Moore and Ashurst are now to leave there has to be plenty of room left on the cap along with the departures of t'other three...it'd be nice to use it!!

Which version of Saints 17 are you comparing Warrington's to, exactly?

We have been using it. Hohaia, Laffranchi and the other bloke whose name I have forgotten (but he looks fit anyway) are joining us next season. Simmons has already indicated that another 'big bloke' could be on his way to us. We're also renegotiating some of the young guys' contracts and so that could eat up the salary cap as if they have been playing for the first team this season it is likely they will be expecting a pay rise.

Jamie Foster is looking at Range Rovers now just a month after getting a new BMW, so he's obviously expecting a hike.

Any news on Ade Gardner? Are we putting the Gazelle out to graze finally?

If we have used it all that is disappointing considering the rises we offered Kyle and Jammer. Massively disappointing in fact. To lose two more and only gain another one would worry me a touch and make me seriosuly question what wages we are paying to people if we were up to the cap! Unless the 'big bloke' we are signing is high class

I agree with much of what you say regarding squad depth, not much in it between top 4-5 teams. However, I don't believe Wigan have best youth system in UK. What about ours under Mike Rush, must have been the best in the past 5 - 6 years. Also atm Wigan's 20's are good but our 18's are by far much better, & are probably the best 18's in the whole comp.