FORUMS > St. Helens > Any regrets - 2012 players roster? |
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| With the downfall of crusaders, players like Ohara, peek withers, sammut, Witt on the market and the release of Willie tonga and Daniel Mortimer in aus.
Any regrets on our signings for the 2012 roster? Can we squeezevany in under the cap and quota?
What is this I hear about Moore leaving and a prop coming in. Any truth?
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| If Moore leaves to accomodate Flanagan it's another recruitment mistake. He's been fantastic this season and brings the only aggression we have. We'll be so utterly soft without him and Jammer if that's true.
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| We could only release Moore for disciplinary reasons surely? I don't know the ins and out of the legal trouble he's in but I hope they aren't serious enough for the club to consider sacking him. He's been impressive this season and can play in a number of positions.
As for Crusaders, I personally wouldn't take any of them, maybe Michael Witt would be worth a look at if we ended up having to release Pryce but even then I would sooner give Gaskell a longer run in the team.
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| Quote: NZ_SAINTS "
Any regrets on our signings for the 2012 roster? '"
I cannot see the logic behind next years signings.
If we take this years squad, minus Graham and Eastmond, possibly Pryce, then we have a major hole in the front row. The loss of Eastmond is already covered by the emergence of players like Lomax, Gaskell and Wheeler. If Pryce is confirmed to be leaving, then we do need a top stand off to repalce him, his influence on the game, over and above what the youngsters can provide, has been plain to see since his return. If Pryce stays, we do not need any more halfbacks.
So, how to use the quota spots? I would suggest one has to be an out and out prop. The other, a good quality outside back. Instead, we have got Laffranchi, who is a back rower who is going to be asked to play prop, and Hohaia, who Royce has said will play as a half back. If we keep Pryce, there is therefore no room in the team for Lomax, Gaskell, or Wheeler, other than on the bench, or the treatment table. Royce has said that Wellenes will be captain next year, so must assume that he will be starting the majority of games at FB.
It appears as though we have bought what is available, rather than whet we really need, which is odd considering our otherwise pretty good recruitment since McManus has been in charge. Were the decisions purely down to Royce?
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| Quote: SomersetSaint "Instead, we have got Laffranchi, who is a back rower who is going to be asked to play prop'"
Hasn't he played prop for Gold Coast most of 2011 after they signed Greg Bird to play in the back row?
Some former back rowers are more than capable of playing prop to a high level - look at Jamie Peacock. Just read this about Laffranchi - written post 2010 season
Gaskell, although talented, will not suffer from a year on loan. He's shown good signs, but has been falling away a bit recently. He needs to mature and develop his game without the pressure of being our 1st choice half; it's a year or so too early IMO.
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| Laffranchi is a class player, I have no doubts about that. With him, a fullly-fit Perry, TP, LMS and Clough all up front with Magennis providing cover we won't have many problems up front next year.
Hohaia is good cover at full-back and the halves, hopefully we can get a solid 1/6/7 combination at some point next year that can take us forward. I think Wellens will start in the team but will be gradually phased out.
Flanagan is a good signing but I can only assume that we are moving on one or both of Ashurst/Dixon, probably on loan as I can't see them either getting regular game time next year.
In an ideal world I would have taken Ratchford who has so far not fulfilled his potential but has great talent. That aside I think we've done pretty well and if we can somehow keep Pryce and get Wheeler and Perry fit then we will have some squad for 2012.
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| I'm pretty sure the best players at crusaders are restricted because of the quota system.
When you talk recruitment it all depends where people play as to whether we have a good squad.
If you look at the options
FB Wellens/Lomax/Pryce
Wing Makinson/Foster/Gardner
Centre Shenton & Meli cover with Wheeler / Flannery/ Soliola
Half backs Lance/Pryce/Lomax/Wheeler/Gaskell
Props TP/Perry/LMS/Clough/Laffranchi/ Forester / possibly another signing???
2nd row Wilkin/Flannery/Soliola/Flanaghan
Loose Wilkin/Flannery/Laffranchi/
So you have a pretty strong sqaud with positions covered everywhere. I've excluded Moore based on the rumour mill and included Pryce. There maybe another prop signing we just don't know till September when clubs can talk to players out of contract.
Realistically the only signings I would like to see are Pryce and a prop.
Whether there is the cap for both who knows?
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Bring me laughter, all the while:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2310.jpg |
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| Quote: SomersetSaint "I cannot see the logic behind next years signings.
If we take this years squad, minus Graham and Eastmond, possibly Pryce, then we have a major hole in the front row. The loss of Eastmond is already covered by the emergence of players like Lomax, Gaskell and Wheeler. If Pryce is confirmed to be leaving, then we do need a top stand off to repalce him, his influence on the game, over and above what the youngsters can provide, has been plain to see since his return. If Pryce stays, we do not need any more halfbacks.
So, how to use the quota spots? I would suggest one has to be an out and out prop. The other, a good quality outside back. Instead, we have got Laffranchi, who is a back rower who is going to be asked to play prop, and Hohaia, who Royce has said will play as a half back. If we keep Pryce, there is therefore no room in the team for Lomax, Gaskell, or Wheeler, other than on the bench, or the treatment table. Royce has said that Wellenes will be captain next year, so must assume that he will be starting the majority of games at FB.
It appears as though we have bought what is available, rather than whet we really need, which is odd considering our otherwise pretty good recruitment since McManus has been in charge. Were the decisions purely down to Royce?'"
I can see what you're saying mostly, but I don't know how we can buy what we need rather than what's available. How can we buy something/someone that's not available? Surely we have to look at what's available and come up with a way of adapting what we have plus the best of what's available to come up with the best squad we can. If you could just go to "RL Players R Us" and fill your trolley it'd be easy.
I think having enough bodies to allow for people being on the treatment table is very wise, particularly given what we've witnessed this season.
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| Quote: Harry Pinner "I can see what you're saying mostly, but I don't know how we can buy what we need rather than what's available. How can we buy something/someone that's not available? Surely we have to look at what's available and come up with a way of adapting what we have plus the best of what's available to come up with the best squad we can. If you could just go to "RL Players R Us" and fill your trolley it'd be easy.
I think having enough bodies to allow for people being on the treatment table is very wise, particularly given what we've witnessed this season.'"
And it may be that laffranchi is seen as the best option to fill the prop slot vacated by Graham. But where does hohaia fit in to that? Can you honestly say we need another halfback? Or another average backrower in flanaghamn?
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| I think Flanagan is going to surprise a lot of people. Think he's a great signing.
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| Gardner to Salford?
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| I admit to being a little perplexed over the Hohaia signing.
I rate him as a player, a great open field attacker, but someone of that ilk would have been further down my list of priorities than a blockbusting prop or a top quality strike 3/4, organising half back or fullback.
Happy with LaF, and as long as Flanagan isn't on huge coin (and I can't imagine he is) he'll be a useful squad acquisition.
It's just the supposed marquee signing of Lance that has me a little 'meh'.
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47035_1386433761.gif We can be bold enough to make a stand and do battle for our views and beliefs. But we must strive to be mature enough not to resort to unnecessary personal attacks upon people with opposing views.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47035.gif |
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| Well the word on Flanaghan is that he is a replacement for someone, it's a bit rich to call him average before we have even seen him play.
The Lance deal is the most perplaxing for me.
But at the time we had lost Eastmond and we had no idea if Leon would actually return.
Lomax and Pryce with Gaskell seam a good combination, but when we signed Lance. Leon could have been a white elephant.
Lets wait and see though. Wigan have accomodated Finch, Tomkins, Deacon and Lululi. That' 4 half backs in one side.
With Gaskell playing a more guest role next year, we should be able to accomodate 3 in Lance, Lomax and Leon.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "Wigan have accomodated Finch, Tomkins, Deacon and Lululi. That' 4 half backs in one side.
'"
Not strictly true though - I'd say Lulu operates mainly as a 9 and Tomkins has been FB for most of the season.
I'm not convinced that either J-Lo or Lance are the answer at FB for us (plus it appears Wello will hold his position next year anyway).
The back-up hooker role is an interesting one for Saints if Moore leaves the club - I can see Hohaia being great there, but he clearly seems to think he's coming over as HB.
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| Quote: bewareshadows "
Lets wait and see though. Wigan have accomodated Finch, Tomkins, Deacon and Lululi. That' 4 half backs in one side.
'"
This is the main reason (besides the coach, obviously) that Wigan are so successful at the moment in my opinion. Not only that they have quality players in the four pivotal positions FB, SO, SH and H, but they are therefore never short of a quality half-back if injuries strike.
If Pryce re-signs, we would have Pryce, Lance, Lomax, Gaskell and Wheeler (if fit) to use at half back, with three having experience at full-back. The halves are by far the most important positions and therefore having such depth ready to step in is invaluable, particularly when these players are good enough to be used as full-backs and centres (Pryce, Wheeler). Personally, I think Lance is a great signing.
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