FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > St. Helens > Truly world class
41 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Billinge_Lump , BackrowSaint
RankPostsTeam
International Star46No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2012Sep 2011LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



In my opinion I think people are to easy to use the term world class when describing players abilities. Recently Sam Tompkins has been described as thus but I don't think he is. No doubt some one eyed pie troll will be on here going blah blah blah and creaming themselves over roland rat but for me is isn't there yet. But in order to balance things out I think that Roland COULD be world class one day. 
That said how many truly world class players have GB / England produced in the last 20-30 years. What does it mean to be considered world class and how would be best to describe those that are one level below?

For me Ellery Hanley was truly world class. Also (IMHO) so too was Tony Myler. Going back further you have Murphy and Karalus, fox as so kne but I'm after people's opinions of the last 30 years.  Finally who of the current/ future generation of GB / England players could also realistically achieve such status???

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner29214No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



No English players that I've seen have been superior to the NRL players. Sculthorpe is probably the closest in my time, he was on par with the best the Roos had during his prime.

Its so hard to judge though as most of the best English players don't take up the chance to play in the NRL. Sculthorpe would have been an absolute revelation for example.

If a SL player has any sort of ambition they would be looking to get over there, particularly as their cap is on the rise.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5463No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2016Oct 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



My interpretation of world class has always been of those players considered the best in the world in their chosen positions. The problem with that is it's open to interpretation, how highly I may rate a certain player, may be drastically higher or lower than my peers. Plus I've always thought, would that players who's thought of as world class, get in a world 13 team.

I must say I go agree in regards to Tomkins. He's not quite world class yet, but he has the ability to be further down the line.


EDIT: Ignore what I've written above. As reading through it again myself, I don't think I've made any sense. Like most of my posts I suppose. icon_wink.gif

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member14094
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Dec 2019Jul 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Sculthorpe.

Farrell may have been had he played second row where he should have been rather than pretending to be a stand off.

For me world class players can stand with the very best, you'll always get disagreements, but that's par for the course with any subjective topic such as this. World class players can become legends but not always, I'd compare them to their peers of the time.

The level below I'd describe as good players and that's a pretty big pot. I only have four bands, great (or World class), good, average and poor.

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member11377
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Mr Miagi "In my opinion I think people are to easy to use the term world class when describing players abilities. Recently Sam Tompkins has been described as thus but I don't think he is. No doubt some one eyed pie troll will be on here going blah blah blah and creaming themselves over roland rat but for me is isn't there yet. But in order to balance things out I think that Roland COULD be world class one day. 
That said how many truly world class players have GB / England produced in the last 20-30 years. What does it mean to be considered world class and how would be best to describe those that are one level below?

For me Ellery Hanley was truly world class. Also (IMHO) so too was Tony Myler. Going back further you have Murphy and Karalus, fox as so kne but I'm after people's opinions of the last 30 years.  Finally who of the current/ future generation of GB / England players could also realistically achieve such status???'"


Sam Tomkins is world class IMO. You're not naming world class players there, you're naming players who have a claim to being THE best player in the world at the time, or at least in their position.

Sam Tomkins would walk into the NZ team at FB IMO, and they are the reigning world champions. That is world class in my opinion.

Joel Monaghan has played wing for Oz, so he must be world class. But Tomkins is a better FB than he is a winger, absolutely no question.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10399No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2016Jul 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Ward is a name commanly mentioned. I agreed with comments about Sculthorpe.

I think to reach his potential Tomkins will move back to 6. At the moment, his undoubted talent for running the ball is being maximised by Wigan's game plan which at times creates acres of space out wide for him . I think as he develops he'll want to move closer to the ruck where he can influence the direction of the game more and make more desicions.

RankPostsTeam
Club Owner29214No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 200321 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Offside Monkey "I think to reach his potential Tomkins will move back to 6. At the moment, his undoubted talent for running the ball is being maximised by Wigan's game plan which at times creates acres of space out wide for him . I think as he develops he'll want to move closer to the ruck where he can influence the direction of the game more and make more desicions.'"


I don't think he will. He always looked like a headless chicken in the halves and he doesn't really have any sort of kicking game or passing game. He is in the best position to exploit his strengths where he is now.

RankPostsTeam
International Board Member17417No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200222 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
May 2015Mar 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Gareth Thomas is world class.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach10399No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2016Jul 2016LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Saddened! "I don't think he will. He always looked like a headless chicken in the halves and he doesn't really have any sort of kicking game or passing game. He is in the best position to exploit his strengths where he is now.'"

But I think he'll develop that, which is my point. He seems the sort of guy who's got it in him - look at how much better he looks under the high ball now. I also feel his kicking game has improved since his 1st team debut.
At the moment, Wigan tailor their game to use his one massive strength - running in space out wide. There's going to come a time when Wigan aren't so dominant or slick at moving the ball and he's going to look wasted out there if he doesn't develop the rest of his game. I think he will.
A "world class" player in a pivotal position should be able to change his game to suit the opposition. A the moment, not many are stopping Tomkins's plan A, so we haven't seen how well he can cope.
If he played NRL, where then can allegedly defend out wide, he may struggle, but I think he's the type of guy that could improve and overcome that, adding string to his bow.

I don't think he's the be all and end all, I think Wigan are currently maximising his talent with great success. I think he could be up there, with the greats come the end of his career, but lets face it, if he stays at Wigan and England keep losing to Aus, he's going to assinged to the same pile as the rest, with no one really knowing if he was.

RankPostsTeam
International Star46No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2012Sep 2011LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



'"
]The level below I'd describe as good players and that's a pretty big pot. I only have four bands, great (or World class), good, average and poor.'"]

I like the way you have the different bands. 

For me to be considered world class you have to be a top 5 player in the world In your position but over an extended period. For me it's gotta be 4-5 years otherwise you can maybe consider them to be a 1 hit wonder so to speak. 

Examples (not all british )are ellery Hanley mal
Meninga wally Lewis alex murphy 

So from GB / England here are a few:

Shaun Edwards - very good
Martin offiah - world class
Johnathan Davies - world class
Sculthorpe - world class
Scofield - very good
Wellens - very good 
Fielden - good
Ward - world class

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2174
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: FearTheVee "Sam Tomkins is world class IMO. You're not naming world class players there, you're naming players who have a claim to being THE best player in the world at the time, or at least in their position.

Sam Tomkins would walk into the NZ team at FB IMO, and they are the reigning world champions. That is world class in my opinion.

Joel Monaghan has played wing for Oz, so he must be world class. But Tomkins is a better FB than he is a winger, absolutely no question.'"



By the same token Hoffman, also world class and there are probably 2 or 3 better second rows than him in SL

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2174
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: nikos "By the same token Hoffman, also world class and there are probably 2 or 3 better second rows than him in SL'"



for me the only 2 close to being world class in SL at the moment are Roby and Tomkins

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach5463No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200915 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2016Oct 2014LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: nikos "for me the only 2 close to being world class in SL at the moment are Roby and Tomkins'"

I'd agree with that, and I'd say a fit and firing on all cylinders Graham would also be up there.

Maybe it's my terrible Wigan bias. But Lockers might be worth a shout. Although one might not consider him world class in some respects. I can't think of a 13 in SL or the NRL better than him. Whether that then makes him world class is debatable.

RankPostsTeam
International Star46No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2012Sep 2011LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: nikos "for me the only 2 close to being world class in SL at the moment are Roby and Tomkins'"


Agreed. From an England point of view I'd also throw in Graham and Sam burgess as they are in the top 5 in the world in their positions but haven't yet done so for an extended period

RankPostsTeam
International Star46No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 201014 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jan 2012Sep 2011LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: LovesToSpooge "I'd agree with that, and I'd say a fit and firing on all cylinders Graham would also be up there.

Maybe it's my terrible Wigan bias. But Lockers might be worth a shout. Although one might not consider him world class in some respects. I can't think of a 13 in SL or the NRL better than him. Whether that then makes him world class is debatable.'"



No lockers I think your world class too icon_lol.gif icon_wink.gif

41 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Billinge_Lump , BackrowSaint
41 posts in 4 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Billinge_Lump , BackrowSaint



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


8.96142578125:5
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Rugby Raider
4042
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63258
1s
Film game
karetaker
5733
2s
Accounts
Tony Fax
141
16s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Rugby Raider
4042
20s
Shopping list for 2025
hull2524
5586
23s
Rumours and signings v9
[Gareth]
28897
25s
Transfer Talk V5
Jack Burton
508
44s
Planning for next season
Bent&Bon
184
44s
Salford
karetaker
52
1m
Fixtures 2025
Bull Mania
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Fixtures 2025
Bull Mania
4
TODAY
Spirit of the Rhinos
Jack Burton
4
TODAY
Mike Ogunwole
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Bailey Dawson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
2024
REDWHITEANDB
14
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Trojan Horse
36
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
Bent&Bon
6
TODAY
Catalan Away
Dannyboywt1
6
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
karetaker
52
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
FIL
50
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
1039
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
636
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1363
England's Women Demolish The W..
1192
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1429
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1210
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1473
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
2011
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2220
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2461
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
2025
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2267
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2733
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2157
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2234