nothing changes..dropping ball...missing tackles...same old...same old.
and how come that widdup is good enough for melbourne storm?..
we scored two good tries in the second half but then did the usual let the kiwis come back..once again as per usual..not good enough.

They're so frustrating to watch. Particularly when they can eventually get it together and score a spectacular try. Was impressed with the pace from Shenton on that one.

Glad the over-rated Ryan Atkins got shown up. He's alright off a dominant forward pack with plenty of space to run into but when it's tight he goes backwards and his defence is poor.

Widdop is a reserve grader in the NRL and you can see why. All the complaints about Wello being slow, Widdop just stepped side to side in those marvellous electric pink boots. Least Wello moves forward.

Did Darrell Griffin play....... needed a more robust forward like Carvell or Crabtree off the bench against the Kiwis.

Here's to the 2011 competition!

We showed flashes and we looked a far better team with Tomkins at fullback. The odd thing is we seemed to wait till the game was hopeless before we opened up play a bit and started to look dangerous

TBH I think we lacked some impact off the bench too - Crabtree causes defences problems. Ryan Atkins was poor , he was shirt grabbing (and missing at that).

It is a mystery to me that Widdop had been selected over Wellens. I think Widdop does offer more in attack but lacks consistency and solidarity. Particularaly with the dropped bomb gifting them a try, i can't remember the last time Wello did that.

Also Ryan Atkins being missing (if it isn't just a knock) may actually strengthen the squad as McBanana will now have to bring in Gleeson who is a better option IMO.

I thought Shenton played very well in attack in the second half but some of his defense in the first was questionable. I don't understand why Griffin got a shirt over Crabtree as his impact could have been vital against a side like New Zealand.

If we stand any chance of winning against Australia next week then somebody will need to learn how to kick very quickly. Phil Clarke summed it up brilliantly (which was a shock in itself) when saying the kicking game was 4/10.

Overall the performance was gutsy and showed some signs of promise. The fact that we weren't more than 12-0 down at half time showed good defence cohesion and a little luck. If we can build and improve on the positives and try and cut out some of the negatives we will stand a chance of being competitive next week. If we play for 80 minutes like we did for our 'good' 15 minutes today, we stand a chance of causing an upset.

Wello has retired from international games hasn't he.

Nope.

No don't think so, just constantly overlooked.

He (Wellens) had stated that he would still like to go/get back into the England side. I think he would have done better than Widdup did today. BUT looking at the picture as a whole he would be really past his best by the time of the World Cup in 2013.

I woul play tomkins fullback and widdop at centre or stand-off.

Wello is overlooked purely down to his age - he's comfortably the best English full back, he proved that this season.

Widdops inclusion shows the unfortunate incompetence of the England head coach. He is playing not because of ability, but only down to the fact he lives in Australia and is on the wage bill of an NRL club. If you include last weeks match against the Mauris (I know it wasn't a full test match) he has now played just as many games for his country as he has for the Storm. He shouldn't be in the squad, let alone starting 13.

I think we really suffered for having such an inexperienced line up which was changed again. It took us the first half to work out who was playing where, only to have to do the same again in the second half when Atkins went off. We have no continuity from one game to the next, much less one season to the next. Apparently only four players from today played in the world cup - and that was only in 2008. How anyone can expect us to compete on that basis alone is surprising. However, I thought we did better than I'd anticipated but that was because of that purple patch in the second half. Hard to believe we actually beat the Kiwis in the second half.

Our defence, error rate, kicking game, follow up and commitment has to improve 100% if we are to stand a hope of avoiding a humiliating mullering at the hands of the Aussies next week.

I did like the BBC pre-match coverage though.

No disrespect to Wello who is still probably England's best full back but it proves that our backs are poor compared to the Aussies and Kiwis.

There are a number of players in the England Squad and especially those who played today should be nowhere near an International Side. Everybody was hailing Gareth Widdops performance against France but lets be quite honest France are no where near the standard of NZ and Australia and he was found out this morning. Ryan Atkins was very poor he offered very little in attack and was poor in defence. Kevin Brown is a very good Super League player but isnt International quality infact far from it. Darrell Griffin is just a steady Prop Forward who doesnt offer much really at all.

Our kicking game was absoultley dreadful. We lacked intensity in the first half and got shown up big time. There have to be changes to the team next week or at least a 100% improvement on line speed, tackling, kicking game, attacking play and aggression. If we dont Australia will give us a hammering next week and possibly overtake the 60dd points they scored against us back in 2002.

Sams the best english fullback, but if he has to be in the halves due to lack of other options then I'd have Wellens at FB. Least you know he can defend and catch a ball.