It's a bit like watching the 99 champions league football final. The 1st 89 minutes were incredibly dull. That's what Saints fans have been subjected to for the past 2 seasons. You've walked into the living room and watched the last few minutes of injury time, seen a exciting finale and presumed the other other 89 minutes must have been like that.

And where was your post telling us to stop moaning a couple of weeks back when you thrashed us and we were god awful?

Sometimes, being crap for a long time isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm referring to Wire and Hull and other clubs, as we really appreciate being competitive now and not being slaughter material for the traditional top 4. That said, as much as I don't like saying/wishing it, you'll be back up again at some point. Unfortunately , you are still a big club who will attract the top players when it's needed. I'm not feeling any sympathy towards you though. (It's probably a back handed complement to the bad times I experienced as a Wire fan losing to you chaps more often than not) I'll only start to be sympathetic when the horrendous 80-0 scoreline is revenged.

We all like a good moan every now and then.

I wouldn't mind so much if I felt efforts were being made to improve things. Cunningham has dug his heels in and has decided to play a game plan than isn't working no matter who the opposition.
On top of that our recruitment over the last few years has been dire - signing from teams below us - and often players who couldn't get a game in teams below us. Then we get the club and coach rubbing salt in the wound telling us how lucky we are to have got these garbage players.

I don't expect us to always win - but I do expect everyone at the club to try their best

This is the biggest worry for saints fans our "big club" profile is being eroded, whats worse is that the club management are letting it slide with bad recruitment and inexperienced coaching staff. We are more or less back to the 80's when most our players were average, results were inconsistent and the fan base was dropping.
We know the top quality players available are spreading thinly through super league but even our bang average team should be player a lot better than whats been served up this season, I don't think our current fans will let it slide hence the moaning.

The reason why I am so disengaged is not solely down to the fact that we are not winning: I think that's incredibly myopic. t's the fact we are so dull to watch and that the players look like they do not care and the fact that they crumble so easily.

It's very easy for someone to come on here and be critical of our criticism (hmm) without appreciating the context.

You only have to look at Man Utd and I think there are a lot of similarities. Similar league position and they sacked LVG. Not because they think they have a given right to win, but because they expect a certain way of playing the game.

I agree, it's not about winning and I have already posted elsewhere about the comments coming from Saints management and the media who have been critical of fans expectations of success.

I'd say 99% of Saints fans would agree that all we want to see is a team that plays entertaining rugby based on skill & speed. If we are then winning or losing, we wouldn't be walking away entirely happy, but we would have more of an appreciation for the effort that's been put in. As it stands, all we see is a team that is going through the motions and restricted to a style of play and a defensive structure that sees them grind out field position and score from 10-15m out, whilst shipping in points for fun.

We don't demand success, we demand competitiveness. That is impacted on by all parties, the chairman, chief exec and coaching staff in terms of recruitment improvements and style of play, coupled with the players executing it.